Any reason to do Mythics anymore?

[Byrthnoth]

Bravura, which I consider to be one of the cheaper relics, is:
73 100s, 60 M Silver, 16 Jades

Now, I'm going to just use Rolanberry prices because regardless of where and what price you buy the currency at, you could just walk to Rolanberry and resell it at those prices, so that's the opportunity cost you miss out on by spending it on a relic instead.
73*800 + 60*1700 + 16*1400 = 182.8 mil

4k Alexandrite * 30,000 = 120mil

So Mythics are cheaper, but you pay ~63 mil in this case to get a better weapon and not have to do 50 assaults + a ton of NI + a ton of Einherjar, in exchange for getting two R/Ex drops in Dynamis.

[Neosutra]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the Magian weapons are done. They are powerful now, but they won't be receiving any further enhancements.

On the other hand, Mythics and Relics will continue to receive additional trials.

Trial of Magians is just getting started..

[Michelob]

Trial of Magians is just getting started..

The new magian weapons themselves appear done. They have plans to expand the trial of magians to other existing equipment.

[Shamaya]

Vajra is 31/200, 35/200 if you go through the 40 hour upgrading (probably longer than that since stage 2 is Undead killshots). Its enhance SA/TA effect can be seen here (tl;dr, its shittier than X's Knife). Even after upgrading Vajra to 35/200, X's Knife is still ONE delay behind it and 1 DMG behind it, however it'll enhance ALL crits, not those forced via SA/TA.

Breaze's testing actually was insufficient to say at all for sure how exactly SA/TA is getting boosted (+dex/agi, or +pDif, or multiplier). But anecdotal is all we need to get a rough idea, and I totally agree w/ your assessment.

I was wanting to upgrade Vajra for completion purposes, and thought maybe I could put it to some use for /drk. Per what Neosutra said in OP though, the new O.A.T. dagger has identical dmg/delay (to olde Vajra). Other than that, the DPS is good but nothing that other daggers can't already do. So unless Vajra OAT is like jailer OAT, then I don't see Vajra being very impressive even situationally. That's kinda a dumb question I guess, if mythic OAT is jailer style ;/ which I don't know the answer to.

[Jeryhn]

nope. nirvana had a huge amount of it's edge beaten out of it with the magian weapons.
it's now no longer the only weapon with -4 perp, or matk. and considering some of the macc and +skill alternatives, it MIGHT not be the best one to land magic pacts in with.

all in all it really was another nail in the already brutalized plywood coffin of bahamut's staff, at least until we are able to augment it. they really outclassed it when the ANNM and fay weapon quests came around... real shame too, since it's asstardedly hard to do the entire build up to bahamut v.2


our bp/situation dependant best would be...

mythic pole for+skill from annm meri with +10 skill, if not more, as they said they changed values (i think).

nirvana for +matk and lolsmn and lolpet melee dot.

nirvana or a magians pole for perp

different magian's pole for +atk for physical pacts,

another magian's pole macc for magic pacts, although mythic pole might give more macc through +skil, if it isn't a 1 for 1 trade.

People still overrating perpetuation.

Nirvana and Bahamut's are still the best for summoner, make no mistake about it. As it stands, our useful Bloodpacts are multihit, and guess what... that's more dependent on accuracy than it is attack! Which means Bahamut's is still the best for physical Bloodpacts and Wards, and Nirvana is king of the crop for magic Bloodpacts.

Sure, there's a mythic pole with up to +10 skill, but at the same time it does nothing to mitigate a summoner's MP costs (especially since in the role of a summoner, where you're putting your MP is important, whether its in Cures or in Bloodpacts or perpetuating). You talk about perpetuation being a good stat when it is only a good stat when you can stack it together. It's importance only becomes relevant when your perpetuation rate approaches zero. The augmented mythic pole is also not good for Siphon, because you're going to lose a couple ticks in perpetuation costs to use that ability in the first place. Going for a staff that both reduces cost and increases siphon rate (Bahamut's) is obviously best to use.

Bahamut's Staff is still the best short of Nirvana for pretty much anything a summoner is going to do because it reduces our costs while maintaining a good, accurate offense at the same time.

As it stands, the only staff I might remotely be interested in for SMN from the Trials is the dark element one, because I want another tick of refresh coming in from Diabolos' Favor for myself and because Diabolos doesn't need summoning skill for any of his useful Bloodpacts besides Somnolence. But if that's the case, I might as well quit the bullshit and just go for Nirvana.

[Neosutra]

The new magian weapons themselves appear done. They have plans to expand the trial of magians to other existing equipment.

There are versions of each OAT weapon that look to have further paths added (the OAT ones with less base damage). And yes, can only imagine what else we will see from this quest.

[Neosutra]

People still overrating perpetuation.

Nirvana and Bahamut's are still the best for summoner, make no mistake about it. As it stands, our useful Bloodpacts are multihit, and guess what... that's more dependent on accuracy than it is attack! Which means Bahamut's is still the best for physical Bloodpacts and Wards, and Nirvana is king of the crop for magic Bloodpacts.

Sure, there's a mythic pole with up to +10 skill, but at the same time it does nothing to mitigate a summoner's MP costs (especially since in the role of a summoner, where you're putting your MP is important, whether its in Cures or in Bloodpacts or perpetuating). You talk about perpetuation being a good stat when it is only a good stat when you can stack it together. It's importance only becomes relevant when your perpetuation rate approaches zero. The augmented mythic pole is also not good for Siphon, because you're going to lose a couple ticks in perpetuation costs to use that ability in the first place. Going for a staff that both reduces cost and increases siphon rate (Bahamut's) is obviously best to use.

Bahamut's Staff is still the best short of Nirvana for pretty much anything a summoner is going to do because it reduces our costs while maintaining a good, accurate offense at the same time.

As it stands, the only staff I might remotely be interested in for SMN from the Trials is the dark element one, because I want another tick of refresh coming in from Diabolos' Favor for myself and because Diabolos doesn't need summoning skill for any of his useful Bloodpacts besides Somnolence. But if that's the case, I might as well quit the bullshit and just go for Nirvana.

Am I missing something or can you not swap in the skill staff for your BPs and move back to perp staff after... Bahamut staff really is outdated with these updates.

[Michelob]

There are versions of each OAT weapon that look to have further paths added (the OAT ones with less base damage). And yes, can only imagine what else we will see from this quest.

Yeah, no one knows if they are really done or not until further updates. I just meant these current ones do appear to be finished to me anyways. Either way, I could see them adding all new Magian specific weapons that trump these as well.

[Limlight]

~R.I.P. Burtgang~

[Max™]

*suspects Neo is pissed he didn't get "Occasionally bashes twice" upgrade for his shield*

[Limlight]

hopefully they add in aegis/ghorn upgrades by the time he gets back. 1500 shield blocks of KB etc.

[Jeryhn]

Am I missing something or can you not swap in the skill staff for your BPs and move back to perp staff after... Bahamut staff really is outdated with these updates.

Depends upon your preferences. If you want to be cost-effective and accurate at the same time, you go Bahamut's (generally the best option). You can macro in a Mythic Pole for a Bloodpact if you don't mind losing the extra MP while the Bloodpact is being executed. For anything worthwhile you can land a magic pact on, a physical pact is likely to do better, so that blows any augmented Fay Croziers out of the water. And if you care about summoner enough that you're going to carry anything but elemental staves for it, chances are you're going to be meriting summoning skill anyway and won't get much out of the additional accuracy that an augmented mythic pole will provide.

As far as Siphon goes, if you're willing to lose up to an extra six MP in perpetuation so you can have another five MP from Siphon, you got problems.

There are also builds which allow for the 317 skill threshold on Diabolos' Favor while maintaining a full perpetuation- set to allow the summoner to actually regenerate MP while Diabolos is summoned. Most of these include Bahamut's Staff, and with some skillful tweaking with gear, only get better once you get Nirvana.

Bahamut's is still the best overall.... short of Nirvana.

[NervosaEternal]

I kind of like the Burtgang but i guess not many others do D:

[Bishop1]

Wow i forgot Mythics needed 30,000 alexandrites for upgrade. I was thinking Mythics were 60m. 90m is WAAAAAY too much for ANY mythic. The relics that don't use bynes for the final stage are 200m and the ones that use bynes for the last stage are about 130m. I rather get a relic that uses bynes than a mythic. Mythics wouldn't be bad for 30-60m but 90? LOL FAIL!

[Fiendishone]

Wow i forgot Mythics needed 30,000 alexandrites for upgrade. I was thinking Mythics were 60m. 90m is WAAAAAY too much for ANY mythic. The relics that don't use bynes for the final stage are 200m and the ones that use bynes for the last stage are about 130m. I rather get a relic that uses bynes than a mythic. Mythics wouldn't be bad for 30-60m but 90? LOL FAIL!

I disagree.

From a personal standpoint (I can't vouch for any others who have completed mythics) but I spent nowhere near 90m. 45-50m at best, thanks to many Salvage runs, the people who attended those runs who either gave or sold their Alexandrites at a discounted price, and other friends who also did the same.

Yes some mythics are great, some are average, and some are just plain wtf was SE thinking.

Comes down to the person playing the game and what they choose. When I first started Death Penalty, several people I know were questioning why I chose it. Now I can make his Black Mage cry at Ouryu (Hi Corvi!). That's just an example.

[Bishop1]

I disagree.

From a personal standpoint (I can't vouch for any others who have completed mythics) but I spent nowhere near 90m. 45-50m at best, thanks to many Salvage runs, the people who attended those runs who either gave or sold their Alexandrites at a discounted price, and other friends who also did the same.

Yes some mythics are great, some are average, and some are just plain wtf was SE thinking.

Comes down to the person playing the game and what they choose. When I first started Death Penalty, several people I know were questioning why I chose it. Now I can make his Black Mage cry at Ouryu (Hi Corvi!). That's just an example.

It doens't matter how much YOU spent Mythics are 90m. Some people can say relics are free because they got it from mog lotto or hnm, or they sponsored dynamis. The actual price if you do it yourself is 90m for mythic 200m for relic. You might be happy with your purchase because Cor doesn't have a relic but if it did you lolmythic..

[Michelob]

It doens't matter how much YOU spent Mythics are 90m. Some people can say relics are free because they got it from mog lotto or hnm, or they sponsored dynamis. The actual price if you do it yourself is 90m for mythic 200m for relic.

Pretty much this. Except that on many servers the price has jumped back up to 4k per for alexandrite. Just because you got some on your salvage run or your friends gave you free/discounted alex doesn't mean that the price of the mythic isn't still 30,000 multiplied by the going rate of alexandrite on your server.

[Zumi]

Mythics are about 90m and Relics come in at around the 180m mark. Just giving people a cheaper weapon they can work for, maybe some people would rather spend 90m vs 180m and still have a somewhat nice weapon.

[Spira]

Depends upon your preferences. If you want to be cost-effective and accurate at the same time, you go Bahamut's (generally the best option). You can macro in a Mythic Pole for a Bloodpact if you don't mind losing the extra MP while the Bloodpact is being executed. For anything worthwhile you can land a magic pact on, a physical pact is likely to do better, so that blows any augmented Fay Croziers out of the water. And if you care about summoner enough that you're going to carry anything but elemental staves for it, chances are you're going to be meriting summoning skill anyway and won't get much out of the additional accuracy that an augmented mythic pole will provide.

As far as Siphon goes, if you're willing to lose up to an extra six MP in perpetuation so you can have another five MP from Siphon, you got problems.

There are also builds which allow for the 317 skill threshold on Diabolos' Favor while maintaining a full perpetuation- set to allow the summoner to actually regenerate MP while Diabolos is summoned. Most of these include Bahamut's Staff, and with some skillful tweaking with gear, only get better once you get Nirvana.

Bahamut's is still the best overall.... short of Nirvana.

Agreed on preferences.
There's no real right or wrong, but if you're going with cost effectiveness, bar mythic, nothing does it better than Bahamut's Staff.

If you're willing to forgo the extra perp cost (which isn't much, but it does add up in the long run) then macroing in skill for staves is an option, though its something best left to as a last choice option. If you can swap in other pieces of gear that don't touch perp and add skill, its a better trade off. If you can swap in gear that affects less perp, thats better too.

Disagree on anything worthwhile tho. Worthwhile is kinda subjective, but there are a lot of strong mobs out there who take more damage from merit BPs than physical. These happen to fall within the category of the mobs that are easily manaburned too.

Aspidochelone, Wyrm (KS99, especially), arguably KB, a good majority of the VNMs, some ZNMs too.

You do end up paying more MP per pact, but if you can afford it, the trade-offs are way better because the damage is always more consistent, and sometimes even higher. Granted, you DO need to invest merit points into them and since you cannot optimize all of them, the way you choose your merits does affect your ability to use them according to the situation. In this regard, 70BPs are the more available option to choose from.

Also, if you're using merits BPs, then thats where Fay Crozier's with good m.acc or mab stats count, but is like the only situation where a well augmented Fay can ever truly outshine a B. Staff. The rest of the time its either a toss up, or B.Staff wins simply for being more balanced.

For anything to do with Spirits at all, B.Staff is also superior to everything short of a mythic.

[Shinryuu]

Here's comes the xth stressing the opportunity cost of items. To put things in perspective: Say there's one other item in the game, which costs 90 million gil, and you derive equal utility from Cannon and this alternative... then (forgetting about the rest of Mythic quest for a minute) you will sell Alexandrites if they're >3k, you'll be indifferent at exactly 3k, and you'll get Cannon at <3k.