Obama Set to Introduce Offshore Oil Proposal

[Beckwin]

America has been perfectly fine with buying oil from muslims who don't disagree with us on major issues.

and at this point, I'd be fine with privately built and run nuclear power plants (with safety and security oversight from the government).

anyhow, I'd say 1 3 & 4 kinda frame the leftist view of oil and alt energy, with mainstream liberals not all that concerned with 3. Al Gore registers stronger with mainstream liberals than critiques of American foreign policy/imperialism.

[Beckwin]

NASA basically got it's start as part of the arms race. even now we have this idea that we need to be the kings of space, rather than NASA being a source of scientific information and innovation.

[Beckwin]

Oversimplified. Nuclear replaces geothermal, hydroelectric, and natural gas but can not solve the problems that combustion engines do. Propping up nuclear power or any other alternative energy source as a replacement for oil or biofuel is a fallacy until that fact changes, and since fossil fuels are only rarely used in centralized power production anyway, it's dubious that the use of nuclear power plants even significantly mitigates oil dependence.

Fossil fuels are used for over half of "centralized power production", so yes, it is pretty significant. Not to mention that much of America still uses oil and gas for heating, which could be done electrically. And it's not so much about nuclear replacing geothermal/hydro/natgas but eliminating coal and oil electricity plants.

I think our progression ought to focus on hybrids with increased combustion efficiency while working on battery tech and preparing quick-charge infrastructure while simultaneously shifting our power grid to alternative sources. Even if all vehicles are not fully electric in 20 years, we could conceivably shift our power grid to being mostly alternative, which would make a huge difference.

[Cadsuane]

Coal is also a fossil fuel. Coincidentally coal accounts for about half of American power production, not oil (edit: or natural gas). Again, Nuclear power will never significantly reduce oil dependence (edit: with current technology).

[Kuya]

America has been perfectly fine with buying oil from muslims who don't disagree with us on major issues.

and at this point, I'd be fine with privately built and run nuclear power plants (with safety and security oversight from the government).

anyhow, I'd say 1 3 & 4 kinda frame the leftist view of oil and alt energy, with mainstream liberals not all that concerned with 3. Al Gore registers stronger with mainstream liberals than critiques of American foreign policy/imperialism.

American oil companies deal with muslim countries regardless of what the latter does or says unless the US government specifically forbids it, such as the case was at certain points with Iran. Or how oil companies had deals with Iraq (initially, the oil companies lobbied against actions against Saddam because it would be bad for business). I am not necessarily accounting for what the non government or non oil company involved america thinks because neither the government or the companies really give a shit.

[Bikpik]

Canada has been drilling off-shore for years now. I'm not sure what the problem is?

[Cadsuane]

Canada has been drilling off-shore for years now. I'm not sure what the problem is?

Newfoundland being full of welfare outports full of unemployed baywops instead of a national wildlife preserve probably helped.

[Bikpik]

Newfoundland being full of welfare outports full of unemployed baywops instead of a national wildlife preserve probably helped.

Hey we have 1 wildlife preserve

edit: oh and there's are no more welfare outports and unemployed baywops (we still have baywops) because we have the big oil bucks (for now)

[Beckwin]

Coal is also a fossil fuel. Coincidentally coal accounts for about half of American power production, not oil. Again, Nuclear power will never significantly reduce oil dependence.

battery cars and improved public/rail transportation should be a reality within the next 2-3 decades.

and getting off coal is a good thing no matter how you cut it.

[Cadsuane]

battery cars and improved public/rail transportation should be a reality within the next 2-3 decades.

True/concievable, and implicit in my original post, though batteries still won't be able to replace cumbustion engines in all instances.

and getting off coal is a good thing no matter how you cut it.

Provisionally true, but has nothing to do with offshore oil development.

[Talint]

I cannot figure out the political motive behind this.

It hurts him with his base and the drill-baby-drill guys aren't going to be impressed.

But the man has been zen-like with his dealings of the political stuff, so I'll wait and see.

[archibaldcrane]

True/concievable, and implicit in my original post, though batteries still won't be able to replace cumbustion engines in all instances.

Yes, but we still procure around 50% of our oil from domestic sources, and a bunch of the rest from Canada and Mexico. If the goal is to wean off middle-eastern oil, we just need to take a bite out of our combustion engines, not completely cease using them.

You're totally right though that nuclear energy doesn't really have anything to do with oil - it's the point I usually bring up in these threads.

[quannum]

I really think he is just doing this to make the conservatives scratch their heads. Like "shit, he's doing something we want, how are we going to invoke anger and fear out of this.. THINK MAN THINK!!".

he's still black

[Xno Kappa]

HE WUZ BORN IN KENYA!!!

[Demosthenes11]

battery cars and improved public/rail transportation should be a reality within the next 2-3 decades

you do realize that will only shake the dependence on the middle east and put it on...the mines of russia, where 90% of the material in those batteries are found

[Cephius]

you do realize that will only shake the dependence on the middle east and put it on...the mines of russia, where 90% of the material in those batteries are found

Except batteries can be recharged and can last for years without being replaced, whereas gasoline is consumed as it's used and has to be replaced far more often. I mean come on now. Plus I'd rather be dependent on Russia than the middle east.

[archibaldcrane]

you do realize that will only shake the dependence on the middle east and put it on...the mines of russia, where 90% of the material in those batteries are found

We should just power everything with only the air that flows in the united states.

And none of that goddamn el nino bullshit either, we don't want mexican air powering our nation.

[Beckwin]

we're also finding ways to recycle batteries. and we'll probably have more options than lithium in the future as well; I think some non-lithium tech is in development.

iirc, hydrogen fuel is already possible for vehicles and while it takes energy to create, if we can use nuclear generated electricity (for example) to make the hydrogen for hydrogen cars...

also alleviating the need for cars in major metropolitan areas would put a nice dent in things as well.

[Kuya]

I love Rachel Maddow. In her show right now she just brought up my essential points. Aside from the head scratching over Obama's support for drill baby drill, it was mentioned how weak the liberals are, ironically, in a democrat president, democrat Congress government where their oposition means absolutely nothing because the White House knows they will fall in line anyway.

[Tristam]

This is pretty ridiculous, there's no other way of putting it, and he is opening parts of Alaska proposed under the Bush plan, basically everything except the Bristol Bay area (what a compromise, right guys?!?!?). There's also a good chance the oil may not even be worth recovering at future prices..... soooo great? I also hold zero hope of any meaningful climate bill, if you thought the public stupid over health care was bad, I assure you the public is substantially more stupid about climate. I can't imagine the republicans not taking an easy win in the climate sphere, especially since Obama seems perfectly happy to not give a fuck about the environment. So if this is a "political maneuver", it's a fucking shitty one.

This is NOT middle ground, this is a fuck you to the environment.

edit: from the NY Times. 3 years of postponing the inevitable energy crisis.

It is not known how much potential fuel lies in the areas opened to exploration, although according to Interior Department estimates there could be as much as a three-year supply of recoverable oil and more than two years’ worth of natural gas, at current rates of consumption. But those estimates are based on seismic data that is, in some cases, more than 30 years old.