Really? (Just beat the game)

[Despain]

"This is one gift I'll forgive them for not wrapping."

<3 Sazh

[archibaldcrane]

Not in a FF game considering that almost every single one uses this plot device to some extent

Using a terrible storytelling technique often doesn't make it good, it just confirms that they suck at storytelling. Being a "Final Fantasy" doesn't mean it has different rules for good or bad storytelling - if you honestly think that you're beyond the point of no return of fanboyism.

ITT: Masochists who enjoy deus ex machina - aka "give it to me harder SE, your semen feels so good when it is pumped into my fanboy asshole."

Don't defend this bullshit, it's terrible. The game has some good stuff going on, celebrate that. Defending this part of the game is embarrassing.

[Raen Ryong]

We've explained it many times over and you just don't like it because it isn't black and white...

Throughout the game you have a good idea that Ragnarok will feature in the end. He does. I don't think using a very well established idea (Ragnarok) and slightly adjusting it for salvation instead of destruction is at all forced... unless you just like everything spelled out for you hours in advance.

Personally I thought the ending was a bit shorter than it should have been and didn't provide much closure, but I was happy with the fact that Ragnarok appeared because it made the plot consistent (everything in your Focus did happen)!

[Stiker]

You also seem to completely be missing the purpose of Orphan, Archi. Bart explicitly said when he first explained the party's focus was that they were to destroy Orphan who kept Cocoon afloat. Orphan wasn't going to make Cocoon go "boom", it's destruction meant the planet would fall.

Orphan was fought because it wasn't just Bart that wanted the Maker's return through Cocoon's destruction. Not to mention there is that whole small issue of all the monsters from the Ark reeking havoc on Eden. Their hand was forced into the fight.

Sure, they could've let Orphan kill them and hope for the best, but then what? The residents of Cocoon would be further angered (for no reason) at the idea of Pulse being at war with them, allowing them to stay under fal'Cie control. That same control would simply repeat the cycle of l'Cie being called to destroy Cocoon. In short, inaction solves nothing.

Yes, they operated on the hope that they would find a way to still save Cocoon despite having to kill Orphan. Which you know, was the same thing they've all been doing the whole damned time. Van and Fang figured out the solution and saved everyone's ass.

I'm honestly not sure what kind of ending you were looking for. Raganork was only mentioned as a "destroyer of worlds" by the fal'Cie, whom continuously used deception for their own desires and goals. Anytime they attempted to get someone to become Raganrok, it was by making a l'Cie fall into an uncontrollable rage and despair which would fuel their actions. So if a l'Cie is able to become Raganrok of their own free will, they aren't exactly in some kind of uncontrolled rage wanting to kill everything in sight.

It isn't the best story in the world by any means, but saying it doesn't make sense it just completely off base.

[Exoduso]

No, not everyone died. A large amount of people did but the "planet" ended up being supported by Ragnarok's crystal pillar and so doesn't need the artificial gravity thingy. It's still largely in ruins and scarred though.

Just wanted to mention that Ragnarok transported everything out of Cocoon before saving it... that is why everyone is on the outside. I thought it was pretty clear that everyone survived because of this, although now they obviously can't live on Cocoon anymore and will be forced to form a new civilization on Pulse.

[archibaldcrane]

So basically the reason we played the entire game is because Vanille and Fang were too stupid to realize that Ragnarok could be used for good, summoned on the hopes and wishes of happiness and rainbows.

If they had realized it at the beginning, they could've just turned into Ragnarok, killed a ton of Fal'Cie, saved Cocoon, and problem solved.

Again, terrible storytelling. This is like the House of Sand and Fog, where if she'd just opened her fucking mail at the beginning of the movie the whole problem would've been a non-issue.

Realizing "oh I have a super awesome power that makes me capable of completely godly shit, and it's a good thing too because we sure threw ourselves into this terrible situation with absolutely no plan on how to prevent mass slaughter" at the last crucial moment is...again...stupid.

[Raen Ryong]

THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE GAME YOUR GOAL IS TO ESCAPE YOUR FOCUS AND YOUR FOCUS CLEARLY SHOWS RAGNAROK AND THE END OF COCOON. IN THE END THEY USED RAGNAROK AS A LAST RESORT.

yes the caps are strictly necessary I swear. It's like you skipped a lot of the early cutscenes...

killed a ton of L'Cie

fal'Cie*? Not to mention at the start of the game you have no idea that the Cocoon fal'Cie are in league with the Pulse fal'Cie in this plan.

[Stiker]

So basically the reason we played the entire game is because Vanille and Fang were too stupid to realize that Ragnarok could be used for good, summoned on the hopes and wishes of happiness and rainbows.

If they had realized it at the beginning, they could've just turned into Ragnarok, killed a ton of Fal'Cie, saved Cocoon, and problem solved.

No.

First, Vanille lied constantly about what really happened. Fang had her entire memory wiped so she couldn't even remember how/why/if she turned into Raganrok. The whole reason she even did that was because she was determined to not let Vanille become a C'eith; however, because only Fang transformed herself, Raganrok's full power was not unleashed and she failed, only scarring Cocoon. Kind of hard to hit the "easy button" when the only one that knows the truth hides it out of fear and the other party can't even remember a damn thing that happened.

Second, the l'Cie were initially not even strong enough to become Raganrok. As the game progressed, the l'Cie continued to further unlock their power (crystarium progression was directly linked to the story for a reason), and only at the final encounter were they even strong enough for Bart to taunt them into becoming Raganrok. Fang even attempted to destroy Orphan on her own in this manner, but just like 500 years ago, she wasn't strong enough to do much of anything useful on her own. An argument could also be made that the l'Cie didn't even unlock their full potential until Orphan was defeated as that is the final crystarium stage that is unlocked.

Finally, like Raen said, Raganrok wasn't even considered an option because the entire goal was to do whatever they could to evade their focus and their fate. Despite those efforts though, they failed until the end. As they arrived on Pulse, they figured Obera would unlock the secrets to escaping their focus, but they found a wasteland. Next, they figured taking out Bart along would do the trick; however, he unleashed hell on Eden and lured everyone into Orphan's cradle, forcing their hand into an encounter with the fal'Cie. Finally, Vanille and Fang transformed into Raganrok in a last ditch effort to save Cocoon. That act also forced them to sacrifice themselves and accept their fate, allowing all the other l'Cie to escape theirs.

Plus the whole "if they just did X at the beginning" argument is dumb as hell to make. If the Emperor would've executed or kept Kefka in jail in Final Fantasy VI, he wouldn't have gotten his powers to wreck havoc on the world. In FFVIII, if Dr. Odine doesn't make his Ellone Junction machine thing that Ultimecia uses to control minds, that whole story could've been avoided. This kind of shit happens all the time in stories and the characters don't exactly have the benefit of hindsight until the events are actually allowed to play out before them.

[Biddinger]

Just beat the game...weird.

I miss: http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/6kefka-g.jpg

[Nevex]

fal'Cie*? Not to mention at the start of the game you have no idea that the Cocoon fal'Cie are in league with the Pulse fal'Cie in this plan.

Actually this is not entirely clear.
What we know is that Pulse and Cocoon's people artificially feared each other, and that the Cocoon Fal'Cies used this fear, as well as Cocoon being a farm that produces humans as part of their plan.

Do the Pulse Fal'Cies want the same thing? They don't really seem to care and Atomos even helps you during the story, while Dahaka tries to kill you. Titan and Bismarck seem to have zero interest in the whole matter.
Anima was Oerba's protector but we don't know if he wanted to destroy Cocoon because it was "a nest of vipers" or because that would recall the Maker, just like Bart wanted.

Also, Fang didn't even know what Ragnarok was; she clearly asks "What is Ragnarok?" on the Palamecia when Bart brings it up.

[Raen Ryong]

The Pulse fal'Cie do seem a lot more wild and not focused on a common goal, that is definitely true. One could argue that by cultivating life they are creating more potential casualties from the fall of Cocoon, but then it also states quite a few times in the game that they do not nurture and protect life like the Cocoon fal'Cie do which would create more life so it is unclear.

The evidence I just used from this basis is as you said,

What we know is that Pulse and Cocoon's people artificially feared each other,

and

Anima was Oerba's protector but we don't know if he wanted to destroy Cocoon because it was "a nest of vipers" or because that would recall the Maker, just like Bart wanted.

Anima and ones like him essentially perpetuated this fear by creating Pulse l'Cie and it was actually him who set the events of the game in motion (leading to Bart's potential Orphan-killing l'Cie). Combined with the fact that once you get the Sanctum Labs shop, the description states that the fal'Cie [Bart] had been concealing your trail since the beginning, it is not unreasonable to suggest that they were in league the whole time (since Bart would have to be concealing these things from the very beginning of your transformation into l'Cie - also you do start getting "fed" soldiers etc).

Bear in mind none of this is canon as such and is just speculation on my part and Anima may well be a rogue entity.

[Despain]

Also, Fang didn't even know what Ragnarok was; she clearly asks "What is Ragnarok?" on the Palamecia when Bart brings it up.

Fang hadn't recovered regaining her memory on the Palamecia. derp

Vanille was lying to her the entire time, and Fang doesn't realize this until they're past Sulyya Springs, and Vanille fights HECATON!!!! etc.

I still don't understand how anyone can find the storyline confusing.

[Stiker]

I still don't understand how anyone can find the storyline confusing.

To be fair, it can get confusing if you aren't paying attention. The way this story is told is completely unlike any other FF. I've compared it to Lost in conversations with friends: the main characters don't know what the hell is going on, character development and questions on the plot are filled in by flashbacks, and the full picture isn't clear until the end and even then, more holes can still be plugged in via the datalog (think missions and the myths that are unlocked as you progress).

A buddy of mine also pointed out another important fact: there is really no big moment that drives the characters into real action in the early/middle story. Sure, they didn't want to become C'eith, Snow/Lightning wanted to save Serah, and Sazh wanted to save his son, but it wasn't until Bart reveals to them that he is about to unleash all hell on Cocoon near the game's end that they really gain a resolve to take out Bart, and later through their hands being forced further, Orphan.

Personally, I liked the new approach to the story telling; however, I do feel that things were drug out for far too long in order have a real "goal". Leaving the story so open ended for so long can easily lead to confusion.