Random Grammar Questions

[Jaybar]

The second sentence now looks much cleaner.

Of course it does, because you only removed filler information...

In what instance does "which" not be followed by a comma? I had a draft returned and he made a comment on putting a comma before "which" in my sentence because the part that came after "which" was not directly regarding the part immediately before it (or something in that regard with the object)
"He had worked previously under Thomas Dudley in the Earl of Lincoln's household which allowed her access to their renaissance library allowing her to read many books."
Yes, the sentence isn't that great and could be broken into two sentences but he mentioned putting a comma before "which" in "household, which" stating what I said earlier.

Your "which" is between two ideas, and the sentence would sound clearer to a reader with a comma (the comma giving a sense of pause).

An example of where to not place a comma before which would be like...

I can't think of any right now.

Also, looking back at your Thomas Dudley sentence, you used two forms of "to allow", and replacing "which" with "that" would be dumb, but putting the comma in front of which and preferably after library would separate a weird syntax fragment of some kind that I do not know about.

He had worked previously under Thomas Dudley in the Earl of Lincoln's household, which allowed her access to their renaissance library, allowing her to read many books.

He had worked previously under Thomas Dudley in the Earl of Lincoln's household, allowing her to read many books.

The reason I suggest a comma after library is because if you took out the "which" phrase, it would appear awkward without the comma between household/allowing.

[Acturus]

In your second sentence with the fat man I thought you didn't need a comma if it was just two things being listed?

If I remember right, the commas being used in a list need to follow the same pattern otherwise it would need a comma splice (semi-colon I think)
A poor example that I can throw out:
"To understand how and why this is, the first step is to understand her past and education before immigrating to America; the second step is to understand her religion and the idea of conversion, and the third step is to see how it changed her views."

Granted, "this" in the sentence is context based but didn't want to make it longer than it already was for an example.

Second subject means comma, I was always told.

"He farted and then fell." doesn't need a comma, but
"He farted, and then he fell." does.

[GRT]

99% of the time "he" refers to the name immediately before it. In this case, it would refer to Mike.

I find news writing rules the cleanest, so I would advice you to not use any conjunction if it sounds awkward at all. Use a comma, semicolon or even a period and separate them into two sentences.

[Meian]

Great book about Punctuation and the like: Eats, Shoots & Leaves

Read some reviews on it and found it interesting. I'll have to give it a look seeing as how I'd like to relearn (or learn in some cases) grammar in general for my own knowledge.

Your "which" is between two ideas, and the sentence would sound clearer to a reader with a comma (the comma giving a sense of pause).

Thanks for the clarification of that and the mention of the Dudley sentence. Using two words in the same sentence like that, even in different forms, is an aggrivating mistake I tend to make but have gotten better (somewhat) at fixing them on a second glance.

Second subject means comma, I was always told.

"He farted and then fell." doesn't need a comma, but
"He farted, and then he fell." does.

Ahh, alright but is there a style choice for that type of sentence?

99% of the time "he" refers to the name immediately before it. In this case, it would refer to Mike.

I find news writing rules the cleanest, so I would advice you to not use any conjunction if it sounds awkward at all. Use a comma, semicolon or even a period and separate them into two sentences.

That was what I originally believed as well but I started to overanalyze and was wondering if it referred to the one who did the verb, in this case who did the refilling, the bartender.
I suppose if it was the bartender looking down then it would use "and" instead of "which" as well as making it cleaner in general.

What grade are you in?

Not sure if it matters for this but I am in university right now. Again, lolgeorgia public education. I've been a self-proclaimed creative writer for several years but I feel I need to improve on my grammar better in whatever way possible. It is disappointing to see I am more grammatically tuned than most people I know in Georgia... very few to learn from.

[Ivve]

All the sentences in the OP are poorly written for a variety of reasons. People have already touched on the problematic passive voice, but you're also not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition. In fact, many times if you really stop to think about it, the preposition is entirely unnecessary.

I asked where we were going to.
I asked where we were going.

Tell me where you're at.
Tell me where you are.

When can I pick you up at?
When can I pick you up?

Break this habbit, because it really sticks out. I grew up in the south too, and it's especially bad there.

As for the sentence you asked about, I would use one of these:

Mike looked down at his glass as the bartender refilled it.
The bartender looked down at Mike's glass before refilling it.

The way it's currently written is exceptionally poor and should just not be used.

Not sure if it matters for this but I am in university right now. Again, lolgeorgia public education. I've been a self-proclaimed creative writer for several years but I feel I need to improve on my grammar better in whatever way possible. It is disappointing to see I am more grammatically tuned than most people I know in Georgia... very few to learn from.

I don't mean to be rude, but I really cannot tell on either count. Personally, I found that reading a lot helped me to better grasp both grammar and vocabulary.

[Max™]

The bartender refilled Mike's glass, which he looked down at.
The bartender refilled Mike's glass, as he looked down at it.
Mike looked down at his glass as the bartender refilled it.
The bartender refilled the glass as Mike looked down at it.
The bartender refilled the glass, which Mike was looking down at.

[Stumblingdrunk]

I feel I need to improve on my grammar better

nah...

[kaisero]

Mike stared at his glass, after the bartended proceeded to refill it.

It's an awkward sentence. You could also go with:

After having the bartender refill it, Mike stared at his glass.

[ghanima]

Not sure if it matters for this but I am in university right now. Again, lolgeorgia public education. I've been a self-proclaimed creative writer for several years but I feel I need to improve on my grammar better in whatever way possible. It is disappointing to see I am more grammatically tuned than most people I know in Georgia... very few to learn from.

Take a high level grammar course at the 300 or 400 level even if it isn't required for your major. Even if you aren't learning nuts and bolts rules the professor will be the kind of person who is able to say one thing that makes it click for you. A high level style or "survey of X period of literature" course taught by the same professor that teaches the grammar course will also help. These kinds of people are picky to the point that routine papers become a way for you to refine your skill without constantly worrying about what you are doing wrong and remembering rules. You want to internalize the rules as much as you can, oftentimes those throwaway papers on subjects you don't care about will do it.

Also Strunk and White Elements of Style will really help.

With commas just remember that less is always more. Most people have severe comma trauma, breaking yourself of this is hard but can be done.

As for your original question...

"The bartender refilled Mike’s glass which he looked down at."

Even without knowing the real why's behind what might be wrong with the statement try asking yourself:

1. What the "he" refers to?
2. What/Who is the subject of the sentence?
3. Read it out loud.

Reading your own work out loud will solve (some) problems. If it still sounds awkward just rewrite, rewrite, rewrite. You can always change one sentence into two and then later on in revisions change two sentences into one.

Honestly, don't be afraid to continually rewrite until you like your result.

[Ksandra]

"Mike's glass which he was looking down at was refilled by the bartender."

Just for reference this is still poorly written, but to be more correct you should add commas like this:

"Mike's glass, which he was looking down at, was refilled by the bartender."

"Which he was looking down at" is an aside to the rest of the sentence, and therefore if you're to write it as thus you should add the commas to separate the thought.


TBH though as others said I would just rewrite it.

[Antithesis]

From the introduction of Crazy English:

Let’s face it: English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant or ham in hamburger, neither apple nor pine in pineapple.

English muffins were not invented in England or french fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies, while sweetbreads, which aren’t sweet, are meat. We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square, and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write, but fingers don’t fing, grocers don’t groce, and hammers don’t ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn’t the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So, one moose, 2 meese? One index, two indices? Is cheese the plural of choose?

If teachers taught, why didn’t preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? Park on driveways and drive on parkways? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? How can the weather be hot as hell one day an cold as hell another?

When a house burns up, it burns down. You fill in a form by filling it out and an alarm clock goes off by going on. When the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. And why, when I wind up my watch, I start it, but when I wind up this essay, I end it? Now I know why I flunked my English. It’s not my fault; the silly language doesn’t quite know whether it’s coming or going.

I especially like the last line of the introduction.

PS: I know this is a Grammar thread, but I thought it would be fitting.

[Moss]

Not sure if it matters for this but I am in university right now. Again, lolgeorgia public education. I've been a self-proclaimed creative writer for several years but I feel I need to improve on my grammar better in whatever way possible. It is disappointing to see I am more grammatically tuned than most people I know in Georgia... very few to learn from.

I was just messing with you, I too am a product of the Georgia public school system!

[Max™]

I actually say meese, or moosii, it's far too amusing to overlook.