Rage Normalization = FFXI?

[Aesctaa]

Stacking sunders as fury is always always always a dps gain for yourself and every other physical dps in the raid. It barely affects your rotation and even if it does somewhat, it's still always a positive gain.

That is, if you have no prot doing devastate. In 10man even if you are only melee it's still a dps gain for youself. So many fury's don't sunder and it hurts themselves and the rest of the raid, just because they are bad or lazy.

More than well aware of this, top 20 ranked WoL as fury on most fights in ICC.

Its totally beside my point.

[Cephius]

To say rage normalization is "copying" the TP system in FFXI is a huge, huge stretch.

[Kyrra]

To me it feels like rage normalization makes them more like rogues.

[aurik]

Hey let's make completely speculative posts about a trickle of information about an expansion that is at least 4 months off.

[Knyghtmayre]

rogues get energy back from doing absolutely nothing, so no, it makes them nothing closer to rogues than they ever were.

[Siniroth]

It does, because if it's normalized you will gain rage at a constant rate, similar to how rogues gain energy at a constant rate.

[Correction]

It does, because if it's normalized you will gain rage at a constant rate, similar to how rogues gain energy at a constant rate.

Not similar enough, since energy regen is a function of only time/talents/procs, whereas rage regen in cataclysm becomes a function of talents/abilities/hit/crit/expertise/haste, while diminishing the impact of enemy hits, weapon speed and weapon DPS. At best you can say weak warriors resemble rogues with very slow energy regen, and strong warriors resemble rogues with very fast energy regen, but even the weakest rogues can pool 100 energy without doing a thing.

[Aesctaa]

for all intents and purposes its going to feel too similar to justify IMO.

Sticking by this being a horrible change.

[Boyiee]

More than well aware of this, top 20 ranked WoL as fury on most fights in ICC.

Its totally beside my point.

I was adding to your point, not discrediting it or giving you advice... but whatever.

It's not a horrible change until you experience it for yourself. The change in tbc was bad, this time they might do it right since they are doing it before itemizing gear, and implementing it with this expac. On next attack moves need to be fixed, warriors are too high of dps at the moment, and infinite rage isn't a good mechanic. The difference in warriors between low and high gear levels is retarded. Being able to walk into trash pulls and do 15k dps pressing 3 buttons as a melee without a real AOE isn't fair to ranged classes with AOE. Being able to pull stupid numbers on a multitude of fights as a class that can hybrid isn't fair to pure dps classes.

It's a good change for prot, possibly fantastic, and it makes the class as a whole more interesting. We'll see how it affects the dps specs and pvp, but for the most part in pve dps is too high. Maybe they'll even extend the length of shouts, wouldn't that be nice? It'll be nice to have ways to gain rage when starved, and more ways to get rid of excess rage. Spamming HS is not fun. I shouldn't be able to play FF13 on one monitor, wow on the other, and still top meters.

[ringthree]

Hey let's make completely speculative posts about a trickle of information about an expansion that is at least 4 months off.

Hey let's make completely asinine posts that ignore what Blizzard has said about how the new rage mechanic is going to work in their new expansion.

[Correction]

for all intents and purposes its going to feel too similar to justify IMO.

Sticking by this being a horrible change.

You don't really know what it's going to feel like until the entire combat system revamp is in beta or live. Jumping to conclusions before you know how even the basic combat ratings remaining (hit, crit, haste) will work at level 85 or how new glyphs/talents/gear/profession stuff is going to change the feel of it is absurd.

[Aesctaa]

Yeah i didn't mean to sound so defensive either.

And regarding the wait and see attitude, they SHOULD have learned their lesson from last time they tried this, but it just gives the feeling they are taking the heart and soul out of a class because they are too lazy to address the balance issues it throws up in a less fundamental way.

I'm more open minded when it comes to prot, i can see this could help them somewhat, but the cost is high.

[Eaglestrike]

What? Blizzard is changing a poor mechanic? That's never happened before! And they've certainly never changed a class in a big way and done it successfully (because paladins have been total shit after their big class revamp in WotLK!)

Honestly, some of the Cata changes scare me and make me think I might not enjoy playing the game again. But this rage mechanic isn't one of them.

[aurik]

Hey guys, I hear normalized rage gain is just like the FFXI TP system, except you use weaponskills with varying amounts of TP, your WS choice at any given time actually matters because they have lingering effects, you gain substantial amounts of TP for being hit, you will use WS at a frequency of probably 20-30 per minute, and it's only the combat resource mechanic for one of ~20 dps specs in the game instead of half of them. Other than that it's pretty much identical!

Hey let's make completely asinine posts that ignore what Blizzard has said about how the new rage mechanic is going to work in their new expansion.

Probably less than 10% of what they say now is actually going to make it live without massive tweaks / tuning, which makes all this discussion pointless.

[Lucavi]

Yeah i didn't mean to sound so defensive either.

And regarding the wait and see attitude, they SHOULD have learned their lesson from last time they tried this, but it just gives the feeling they are taking the heart and soul out of a class because they are too lazy to address the balance issues it throws up in a less fundamental way.

I'm more open minded when it comes to prot, i can see this could help them somewhat, but the cost is high.

So if its such a poor mechanic and the balance needs to be addressed, how would YOU fix it while "still keeping the heart and soul of the class" in it?

I figured the heart and soul was seeing a screaming, frothing plate-clad barbarian rushing towards its enemy, spamming some thundering move, and shouting "MOAR SUNDERZ!"

[Norellicus]

I really don't see how this is such a terrible change, it doesn't fundamentally change how the class plays (which would suck...) and gives a good tuning knob that allows them to tweak it further down the road. At worst, it doesn't fix any of the problems, but it's also pretty guaranteed to not create new ones.

[ringthree]

Hey guys, I hear normalized rage gain is just like the FFXI TP system, except you use weaponskills with varying amounts of TP, your WS choice at any given time actually matters because they have lingering effects, you gain substantial amounts of TP for being hit, you will use WS at a frequency of probably 20-30 per minute, and it's only the combat resource mechanic for one of ~20 dps specs in the game instead of half of them. Other than that it's pretty much identical!

Rage is going to be determined by swing speed. TP is determined by swing speed. If you can't see the similarity then you are just being intentionally obtuse.

You are discussing the differences in how Rage and TP are used, which anyone could see are completely different. Rage generation, not Rage usage is what most Warriors in WoW are concerned with. Rage generation is what is causing people to call it a "broken" mechanic, not Rage usage.

Probably less than 10% of what they say now is actually going to make it live without massive tweaks / tuning, which makes all this discussion pointless.

Less than 10% of the Rage mechanic is going to be in the new expansion? Blizzard made a large announcement and discussed the specifics of the mechanic because only 10% of it is going to make it to full release? Are you even thinking about what you are saying?

That is an awesome reason to not talk about potential changes!

God, you must get a raging hard-on to disagree with me. LOL

[Correction]

Rage is going to be determined by swing speed. TP is determined by swing speed.

TP isn't the cornerstone of all tank threat generation? For every similarity you name there are multiple differences. The comparison made a cute OP title but really, stretching it any further with what little information we have just to keep an argument going accomplishes what, exactly?

[Lucavi]

In FFXI, mana was the cornerstone of tank threat, not TP. What's the pld gonna do: circle blade to hold AOE threat?

Rage shares very little in common with TP, at least when confined to the rules of each game. Perhaps FFXIV's concept of TP, in which we'll be able to use segments instead of the entire chunk all the time, will be far more similar to this new rage.

Actually they do sound similar, but WoW still uses smaller bits and portions of rage than any FF TP concept.

[ringthree]

TP isn't the cornerstone of all tank threat generation? For every similarity you name there are multiple differences. The comparison made a cute OP title but really, stretching it any further with what little information we have just to keep an argument going accomplishes what, exactly?

You are another one that just gets a raging woody to argue with me. LOL

What do you not understand about Rage generation? I don't think that Warriors of any flavor (except maybe Fury) are complaining about the options they have for spending their rage. It's Rage generation that is the issue.

Swing speed determining rage generation is pretty much exactly the system that SE uses to determine TP. If you think for even a second that I am actually saying that Blizzard "stole" the idea from SE, then you are just retarded. Yes, I clarified this in my first post, but I will clarify it again, I do not think Blizzard "stole" it from SE.

Swing speed is better for determining Rage generation because it is a universal factor that does not scale with gear. Having your resource scale with gear is a bad idea that is almost universally panned in the Warrior community. Speed swing is a good replacement for damage for determining rage generation, it doesn't vary except with your weapon choice (and haste, crit and other externalities that don't fundamentally alter the system), which means that all Warriors irrelevant of level, gear, or spec will be getting the same Rage per swing as everyone else.

Seriously, why are some of you so butt hurt that Blizzard is changing the system to something that makes sense?