Wikileaks Releases Video Depicting US Military Killing Dozen Iraqis Including Two Reuters Employees

[archibaldcrane]

whats this about war?
this is an invasion; NOT a war. the war ended couple of years ago.

Wait, it used to be a war?

Pretty sure it was an invasion from the get go, and we are the aggressors.

[thetruepandagod]

It is kind of a shitty false dilema.

Why should any amount of civilian casualties be acceptable in a war of aggresion where lies were used to go to war?

Where did i specifically say that im talking about this war? I am talking about ANY war/invasion throughout history whether for the most just of reasons or the most shallow politically backed of reasons, civilians will die one way or another this is a fact that you must accept. I'm not saying it should happen but to deny that in any large scale violent event that an innocent will die is just one of the stupidest things a person can say.

Unless we start inventing battle islands and only allow soldiers on them to compete in gladiatorial type battles.

[miokomioko]

Yes, nothing was going on. It was all sugar and rainbows until we INVADED.

[thetruepandagod]

Yes, nothing was going on. It was all sugar and rainbows until we INVADED.

I think people should just start to picture america as vikings, bitches love vikings.

[Faris]

Also talk about how gleefully you anticipate the murder of American civilians in retalliation some more; we really liked that.

and canadians can be collateral damage then

Wait, it used to be a war?

Pretty sure it was an invasion from the get go, and we are the aggressors.

o yea

[Kuya]

Where did i specifically say that im talking about this war? I am talking about ANY war/invasion throughout history whether for the most just of reasons or the most shallow politically backed of reasons, civilians will die one way or another this is a fact that you must accept. I'm not saying it should happen but to deny that in any large scale violent event that an innocent will die is just one of the stupidest things a person can say.

Unless we start inventing battle islands and only allow soldiers on them to compete in gladiatorial type battles.

I am talking about this war. So everything else you have to say is meaningless to me. The stupid contention: BUT CIVILIANS DIE IN WARS is completely uncontextual. Civilians dying in wars that are truly necessary is one thing, but when a war is the mere result of a government playing empire then civilians dying is never okay because the war itself is illegitimate. By not making the distinction all you serve to do is ignore facts.

With that said, if you bring this point up again, i will just ignore you.

[thetruepandagod]

What would you like to talk about? How civilian casualties in an illegitimate war completely undermine the goodwill that we do attempt to bring? Or how it serves to further make certain regions be even more anti american then they already are when they see us invade them for greed based reasons and kill their children?

[Faris]

cool, so we all agree

[Rothbardian]

Despicable cover-up and acts. Will you liberals vote for Ron in 2012 when he runs, or do you like the Status-Quo?

[Ikith]

With stuff like this... You see one video of people getting killed be it innocent unarmed, reporters, insurgents etc etc etc yet you never mind the shit that isn't seen... You know what happens when those fuckers get our soldiers? Do you think they stop and say hey what if this dude is just a reporter or hey what if this dude has kids or shit like that? No they fucking blow their heads off in an instant. I hate to generalize it but that's just war for you if you don't like it then don't read threads like this and stay away from the news.

Either we trust one fucker that looks harmless and let him go and he goes and blows some shit up with 30-40 people or we take that chance and kill that same dude and his friend who is actually harmless and save 30-40 people. Your choice but either way if we let one dude go by we risk killing 30-40 others because he wasn't so harmless and he blew some school up or some political meeting.

IN B4 SHIT STORM "YOU ARE WRONG BLAH BLAH BLAH".

[miokomioko]

The war effort just needs to balance every "bad" video like this with one of a HumVee full of soldiers getting blown the fuck up by a bomb on the side of the road.

[Ikith]

The wat effort just needs to balance every "bad" video like this with one of a HumVee full of soldiers getting blown the fuck up by a bomb on the side of the road.

The thing is what if that "innocent unarmed" person that we let go is the dude that is going to go set the IED and it kills a humvee full of soldiers.

Now lets compare it to if we killed that dude... We keep our soldiers and we kill some dude that is obviously bad but looks innocent then it gets reported as "another civilian killed by our soldiers".

We take that chance every pull of the trigger and its just war. (Again I hate to generalize it but that's what it is like it or not)

[miokomioko]

"Terror" is obviously winning "The War on Terror" when soldiers literally consider gunning down children when they throw cups. I don't even think is a war that can be won.

[Rothbardian]

"Terror" is obviously winning "The War on Terror" when soldiers literally consider gunning down children when they throw cups. I don't even think is a war that can be won.

How can you have a war on a tactic and expect to win. Boggles the mind. It's like saying, I'm going to win the War against Flanking Manuevers, or the War against Guerilla's. That shit is dumb on foundational levels, you have to be a complete and utter imbecile to support such an endeavor.

Best step to stopping the Imperialism and absurdity is to get rid of compulsory and State-education. Imagine how many more people wouldn't be so ardently Nationalistic and Imperialistic if you didn't have to sing the Pledge of Allegiance for 12 years, or if you weren't always hearing about Government omnipotence and regality through your formative years?

[Rothbardian]

No it's not. He's right. Regarding murder that's not what you said. You're comparing a military conflict to a petty turf war between rival gangs. That's so far from being accurate I don't even have words for it. If you're beef is against murder in general well, that's not what were even debating at the start. Murder, and the death of the individuals in the video isn't even in the same realm when you consider all the facts that are in the thread.

The Mafia is much preferrable to the State -- Government. He is absolutely right in that rights are based on individuals, not groups, and that since it is wrong to initiate aggression and murder, it is therefore wrong for all groups. Saying it is ok for one group -- Government -- and wrong for another -- Mafia -- even though both presume to have monopolies on violence in a geographical area is hilarious.

I suppose Gangs and Mafia's should start drafting up their own documents to falsify legitimacy and then since they wrote down on a piece of paper a form of institutionalized plunder and murder then it will be all okie dokie.

The only wars that are justifiable are ones that fulfill all tenets of the Just War Theory and ones that are solely defensive in nature, and ones that are meant to destroy the chains of tyranny, not supplant one for another.

The whole world is living in a Matrix. We wonder why people can become so violent when the whole world lives in a system which institutionalizes it. At least the Mafia doesn't confiscate over half my wages and threaten me with death and kidnapping if I fail to comply (They also don't tell me what kind of lightbulbs I can have, and how much water my toilet can flush, among a myriad of other things). Al Capone treated his community damn nice (not so much his rivals ). Can't say the same about the folks in DC shitting on us day and night and burdening us with 40,000+ debt. What is the difference today between King George and our rulers in DC? NOTHING. They both rule by political fiat. They do whatever the hell they want, legislate whatever the hell they want, and go kill whoever the hell they want.

Give me American Revolution 2.0 PLEASE.

[Faris]

The thing is what if that "innocent unarmed" person that we let go is the dude that is going to go set the IED and it kills a humvee full of soldiers.

Now lets compare it to if we killed that dude... We keep our soldiers and we kill some dude that is obviously bad but looks innocent then it gets reported as "another civilian killed by our soldiers".

We take that chance every pull of the trigger and its just war. (Again I hate to generalize it but that's what it is like it or not)

i dont know man, in my book its better to be killed than kill.

I think in the judicial system they go by something like that too.

its better to free a murderer than kill an innocent man
"innocent until proven guilty" na mean?

[Rothbardian]

i dont know man, in my book its better to be killed than kill.

I think in the judicial system they go by something like that too.

its better to free a murderer than kill an innocent man
"innocent until proven guilty" na mean?

Naw dude. Writ of Habeus Corpus is so 18th Century dude.

[Ikith]

i dont know man, in my book its better to be killed than kill.

I think in the judicial system they go by something like that too.

its better to free a murderer than kill an innocent man
"innocent until proven... -BOOM- -EXPLOSION- -KABOOM- -DEATH-" na mean?

ftfy

No offence firas

[Sylvrdragon]

They should just nuke a couple cities and get all of the public backlash out of the way so they can be freed up to get the fucking job done without a PR shit storm every time someone mentions collateral damage.

[*Shinzon*]

The Mafia is much preferrable to the State -- Government. He is absolutely right in that rights are based on individuals, not groups, and that since it is wrong to initiate aggression and murder, it is therefore wrong for all groups. Saying it is ok for one group -- Government -- and wrong for another -- Mafia -- even though both presume to have monopolies on violence in a geographical area is hilarious.

I suppose Gangs and Mafia's should start drafting up their own documents to falsify legitimacy and then since they wrote down on a piece of paper a form of institutionalized plunder and murder then it will be all okie dokie.

The only wars that are justifiable are ones that fulfill all tenets of the Just War Theory and ones that are solely defensive in nature, and ones that are meant to destroy the chains of tyranny, not supplant one for another.

The whole world is living in a Matrix. We wonder why people can become so violent when the whole world lives in a system which institutionalizes it. At least the Mafia doesn't confiscate over half my wages and threaten me with death and kidnapping if I fail to comply (They also don't tell me what kind of lightbulbs I can have, and how much water my toilet can flush, among a myriad of other things). Al Capone treated his community damn nice (not so much his rivals ). Can't say the same about the folks in DC shitting on us day and night and burdening us with 40,000+ debt. What is the difference today between King George and our rulers in DC? NOTHING. They both rule by political fiat. They do whatever the hell they want, legislate whatever the hell they want, and go kill whoever the hell they want.

Give me American Revolution 2.0 PLEASE.

You people are really over thinking this and trying to sum the whole war up through this event where nothing questionable or wrong was even done unless you consider insensitive comments criminal. It's still not an accurate comparison when discussing this issue at hand, which is clearly not the focus anymore. Institutionalized? No shit soldiers are trained to kill.