Wikileaks Releases Video Depicting US Military Killing Dozen Iraqis Including Two Reuters Employees

[Elvis]

Yea, when I said the 'few bad apples' thing, I was being sarcastic.

[Kuya]

Not trying to sound heartless but seriously what person brings their kids to pick up bodies after they were shot by a heli?

Also they seem to get permission for all firing as they are supposed to.

Are you being serious?

[Elvis]

Not trying to sound heartless but seriously what person brings their kids to pick up bodies after they were shot by a heli?

Also they seem to get permission for all firing as they are supposed to.

It's their country. For them, that's everyday life. They didn't get on their Islamophones, hear of the shooting, and then rush to the Muslimomobile.

Thats just their life and it sucks. Wrong place, wrong time, everytime.

So what's you advice? I mean, it's not just a 'heartless' thing to say but it's deeply stupid.

What should Iraqis do? Just huddle up in the Green Zone like the internationals, and let the entire army roam around everywhere? It's THEIR COUNTRY.

[Ikith]

I figured someone heard the shooting jumped in their van and decided to take the children to rescue these people. My comment is null here.

[Elvis]

If you heard firing then went to pick up the bodies/wounded would you bring your children to it or would you leave them at home?

Um, they were already there. So if you're point is: 'They should have turned back.'

Then yea, I agree. But at the same time they were trying to help out some people. It's messed up either way.

But the way that soldier said it. 'OH WELL, it's their fault for blah blah[...]' - no, fuck you, for shooting the van like it had candy inside or something.

[Mizango]

Or they could try not firing at civilians?

[Mizango]

But why argue over details.

[Kuya]

If you heard firing then went to pick up the bodies/wounded would you bring your children to it or would you leave them at home?

Of course why didn't i think of that!

First i had an ephinaphy and realized that rather than focusing on who actually injured the children, i am going to rhetorically ask why they brought their children to a warzone!

Then, i am going to concoct a situation where they heard gunshots and inmediately rushed over there, rather than them just happening to be in the area and seeing an injured man crawling on the ground.

Then i am going to make more absurd declarations about why they brought their children there, as if they weren't already in the very area and as if the children weren't already in the van and thus it would be even more absurd to put the children anywhere other than inside the van.

And then to finish off my retarded post, i am going to imply that the father died and the kids were injured because he was stupid rather than the stupidity or overzealousness of some soldiers.

I am so great.

[archibaldcrane]

Who is giving this permission? Are they in the chopper? A higher-ranking officer? Can they see what the gunner sees?

I don't know how these types of operations work - can any military people help fill this in?

[Kuya]

It is amazing to witness the sheer will people put into trying to defend what the soldiers did. I believe i've seen every possible argument that could ever have been used to justify killing civilians. And in only 7 pages too.

[kuronosan]

There are two sides to this tale.

First, after actually forcing myself to sit through the video and being thoroughly disgusted, my first obvious impression is how could these soldiers be so stupid as to mistake a camera for an AK-47 unless they were looking for an excuse to fire?

They were a helicopter hovering around a group of Iraqis. I'm pretty sure the Iraqis would have seen it and been like "Holy shit we better not try anything or we're all going to die". This is a case of pure ignorance and nothing more. It's disgusting they would even ASK permission to fire on a group of people that was showing no hostility whatsoever.

On the other hand, some of the behavior was indeed suspicious ... such as the guy crouching behind the wall. From the view of the co-pilot, it does look like he's trying to do something suspect... so you can't fault them for being stupid and assuming they should shoot first and ask questions later.

That's about the only justification that is acceptable in this situation. If the soldiers were only doing what they felt necessary to protect themselves because they assessed a threat in the area, I could understand. Being that they continued firing and even made comments about innocent people (the photographers) like they were terrorists when they weren't even armed (talk about overkill - an apache? come on.) I can only conclude that the acts were pretty malicious.

Also, what the fuck? They shot up a van and injured two children and they're going to let the Iraqi police handle it? What happened to saving lives? Isn't that what they went to Iraq for?

My bad. Those two children might have been wired with explosives which were set to go off after the elaborate plot to bring them in a van, get shot by a minigun, be carried to a hospital, and put near hundreds of American soldiers was put into effect.

Right?

This is retarded logic, people. Death is never acceptable in war, and to rationalize collateral damage to is even more bullshit.

[Ikith]

I guess you guys are right...


But at the same time all I have to say is...




GOTCHA!


On a more serious note IIRC yes the person giving permission to fire can see the target through the camera but this is only if I recall correctly. I think its a requirement or something.

[Kuya]

Has anyone seen the entire video? I heard that at the end the helicopter fires hellfire missles at a complex and that this had killed 3 families living there.

[Ikith]

Has anyone seen the entire video? I heard that at the end the helicopter fires hellfire missles at a complex and that this had killed 3 families living there.

Now that is inexcusable wtf dude you shoot up some people then destroy a complex... Come on what next throwing a puppy out the helicopter and using it as a clay pidgin?

(If this is true that is)

[Kuya]

This is Julian Assange mentioning it in Democracy Now. I haven't seen the long video yet, which is why i ask:

Something that has been missed in some of the press reportage about this is that there is a third attack, just twenty minutes later, by the same crew, involving three Hellfire missiles fired onto an apartment complex where the roof was still under construction. We have fresh evidence from Baghdad that there were three families living in that apartment complex, many of whom were killed, including women. And we sent a team down there to collect that evidence. So that is in the full video we released, not in the shortened one, because we didn’t yet have that additional evidence. Innocent bystanders walking down the street are also killed in that attack.

[dejet]

Death is never acceptable in war, and to rationalize collateral damage to is even more bullshit.

Not going to pick a side... But I just have to ask what did you think when you posted this? where the hell have you been the last 100 years? I can see someone in the days of "line up and shoot!" but any war in the last 100 years has been about killing anyone in your way.

I can not think of one that was not in some way like that. Shit its the point of guerilla warfare

[kuronosan]

I'm not following, Dej. I'm aware death is necessary and part of a war. Regardless, it's still unacceptable (in most circumstances, I suppose).

[archibaldcrane]

Death is acceptable in some wars. Just not this one.

[Therin]

Why did I come back to read more posts in this thead? I think I'm getting sick.

P.S.:

http://i41.tinypic.com/343tb0j.jpg

'sup RPG.

[dejet]

I did watch the video, and it seems they might have gone overboard. Still tho it seems odd one did hide, it seems odd a few had guns, it seems odd that after a big ass gun goes off you run to the zone.

It all seems out of place. If in their spot I might have done the same thing, fire before I get fired at.

Thats how I reason with what they did, I might have done the same thing, well 1st I might of just run away but that is not an answer for them at the time.