Wikileaks Releases Video Depicting US Military Killing Dozen Iraqis Including Two Reuters Employees

[Elvis]

Either way, I can't say I blame soldiers for that kind of mentality. If I were in a country where a whole lot of people hated me and wanted to kill me, I'd be paranoid too.

Yea? What about the insurgents, you know people born in Iraq. Arab. Muslim. Just like our guys are American, Caucasian/Black/etc. (multiculturalism/etc.) and secular or Christian.

What about them thinking to themselves:

'this foreign army is occupying our country'

'our country has gone to shit since the invasion'

'they killed my friend last week at a checkpoint'

Etc.

Your premise works if our use of force is inherently legitimate. It's like you drive someone into a ditch, and then when you scream at them, they tell you, you're not being 'productive'. There's plenty of reasons for Iraqis to be armed.

Who were those people, who were supposedly armed (I think some were, but I still can't see clearly)?

You say:

If I were in a country where a whole lot of people hated me and wanted to kill me[...]

...as if the American army - THE strongest army on the planet - was just VISITING Iraq. Seeing the museums. Tasting fine Iraqi cuisine.

[*Shinzon*]

They should do that in Manhattan and see well how that goes over. No offense but I dont buy the "Its just how it goes" and shrug it off as another day thing. 9/11 happened, "Dill with it" amirite? I mean, fuck the families, the kids, the parents, that's just how it goes right.

Rest easy America, that whole "misunderstanding" was collateral damage from our shitty foreign policy. Move it on along people, nothing to see here.

Oh there's no doubt it's really terrible. But it's not like the pilots could of really shot any better. A 30mm cannon can't be expected to fire upon individual targets with the same accuracy as an assault rifle. The very definition of accuracy is different because of the weapon. As far as they were concerned the entire group was a threat because of the situation agai,n which just isn't clear. Now I wouldn't go as far as comparing this to the killing of civilians during 9/11 and again it is awful. I'm not so much shrugging it off as I'm trying to convey the soldiers not being at fault.

Yeah they say fucked up shit over the radio but really? They're guilty of being insensitive at the most.

[Rhinox]

I really hope there is a backlash for this shit. How the fuck do you shoot a 'rescue van'? since when do we shoot at medics in a time of war?

[Mizango]

Elvis stop being a fucking prick, those were merely "enhanced" civilian crowd control techniques. Fucking Iraqis, walking around their country and shit like they own it. F those guys in their righteous A.

[Elvis]

@Drex

You say:

If I were in a country where a whole lot of people hated me and wanted to kill me[...]

...as if the American army - THE strongest army on the planet - was just VISITING Iraq (and not invading, occupying, avoiding real elections and instead wanting to arrange caucuses, setting a point by point list of things to do like preventing Iraqi farmers from using their own seeds, etc. etc.) Seeing the museums. Tasting fine Iraqi cuisine.

That's just stuff that I think the educated class in Iraq may be aware of. What about the Islamists? The people who are preyed on by the Islamists? The working-class types too?

Just like people in this country are not all educated or intelligent and react emotionally to stuff happening to them.

Think of the people who know EVERY little detail (a good place to start is 'No End In Sight'). There's a big list of things for those people to be upset about. And just within the time-frame of the invasion - the present.

That doesn't even factor in the Saddam years + the sanctions.

[*Shinzon*]

I really hope there is a backlash for this shit. How the fuck do you shoot a 'rescue van'? since when do we shoot at medics in a time of war?

Really? I mean seriously? How do you possibly expect them to know that the individuals are not armed inside the van? Why are you so sure there are no weapons in that van? You can clearly hear the reactions of the pilots asking to engage because he believes they are picking up weapons and bodies. These reporters were mingled together with individuals CLEARLY carrying weapons. Not to mention they don't even know they are fucking reporters. They can't sort out who is who when they don't fucking know that. Don't be an idiot. A van in a hostile environment comes rolling down the street picking up bodies and possibly weapons, and you're gonna let them go where-ever they please and potentially shoot at your ground troops?

That van isn't labeled as medical personnel and they aren't uniformed.

[shepardG]

It'll be real hard to ever learn the real situation that lead to these deaths, could be weeks worth of intel that the main IED maker of that Area of Operation was there, could have been a ton of different things going on, and bottom line is, me, you, 99% of the world will never know. Ain't right to judge a man for his actions till you wore his fucking shoes.

Is war shitty? Fuck yeah. That's an understatement. Ain't a god damn dumber thing on this planet that human beings do, than killing one another for some stupid fucking reason, what ever it may be. Does that make or in any way justify killing more? Nope. but mankind's been doing it since cain and abel. We ain't figured out how to stop it in over 2 thousand years, bless our hearts, and as much as it pain's me to say, If I were to bet on figuring it out in 100 days, 100 years, or 100,000 years, I'd have to say we probably won't make it another 100,000 years.

Were a scared fucking animal with brains to big for our own good.

And the soldiers being nonchalant about lookin at a street fulla dead guys, and even kids ought to give you some ideas about the shit they wake up to at night covered in sweat. You see that shit all the time, and you learn to deal with the part of you that ain't innocent anymore, but that don't mean that the hurt don't go away. My dad, 66 years he's been on this planet, since his 20's I don't know if he sleept like a man should, after walking through vietnam.

I won't judge a person in that video, dead or living. Clearly everyone here knows it's sad, made sadder by the fact that it'll happen again, just like it always has. for another 100,000k years.

[Mizango]

Now I wouldn't go as far as comparing this to the killing of civilians during 9/11 and again it is awful. I'm not so much shrugging it off as I'm trying to convey the soldiers not being at fault.

Why not? Because those niggas wear sandals and live in a poverty stricken country? Some would say our then foreign policy was a symbol of oppression and could be seen as a threat, much like the AK-Uzi-holy shit rocket launchers those kids and their parents were carrying.

I mean I know what you are trying to convey but I see it from a different angle. All im saying is you cant lump everyone into one basket based on the sole premise of war. I mean mind you, this is just one of hundreds of incidents since the war came out. Remember a few stories from wedding being hit by drones, simply because a gun was shot in the air, which by the way is a fucking wedding custom in the middle east.

I mean we just agree to disagree on the fine points of what happened, but dont file a report and play the "not me" or pull the Sundi "lol i dont know" card, when asked what the fuck happened.

[Khajit]

This wouldnt have happened if he owned a gun.

[Elvis]

Really? I mean seriously? How do you possibly expect them to know that the individuals are not armed inside the van? Why are you so sure there are no weapons in that van? You can clearly hear the reactions of the pilots asking to engage because he believes they are picking up weapons and bodies. These reporters were mingled together with individuals CLEARLY carrying weapons. Not to mention they don't even know they are fucking reporters. They can't sort out who is who when they don't fucking know that. Don't be an idiot. A van in a hostile environment comes rolling down the street picking up bodies and possibly weapons, and you're gonna let them go where-ever they please and potentially shoot at your ground troops?

That van isn't labeled as medical personnel and they aren't uniformed.

The van showed up AFTER THE environment got hostile. The environment got hostile because the soldiers began shooting at EVERYTHING.

They van was not armed with laser beams on the top. Klingons didn't jump out the sliding door w/ rocket launchers. You expect everyone in an occupied country to not drive cars around their own country? Where in Iraq is there not hostile territory? The Green Zone? Where WE park ourselves?

The people who came out of that van were picking up a guy who was crawling as he died. A guy who BTW was holding a camera. You can tell it's a camera or video camera in the clip.

[Mizango]

This wouldnt have happened if he owned a gun.

Took long enough lol.

[Rhinox]

Really? I mean seriously? How do you possibly expect them to know that the individuals are not armed inside the van? Why are you so sure there are no weapons in that van? You can clearly hear the reactions of the pilots asking to engage because he believes they are picking up weapons and bodies. These reporters were mingled together with individuals CLEARLY carrying weapons. They can't sort out who is who when they don't fucking know that. Don't be an idiot. A van in a hostile environment comes rolling down the street picking up bodies and possibly weapons, and you're gonna let them go where-ever they please and potentially shoot at your ground troops?

That van isn't labeled as medical personnel and they aren't uniformed.

Yes. Yes seriously? At that point why are they still there? they were obviously trying to pull the bodies in the van. What do they have a FUCKING CORPSE LAUNCHER?

This shit wouldn't fly with any other country but with us. How exactly are we suppose to gain the trust of people if we don't exactly verify who the fuck we kill.

when we do shit like this in Iraq and shit like this in afghanistan no wonder we are hated all over the fucking planet.

[Draylo]

God that fucking disgusts me. Those people are horrible. Really dislike a lot of the mentalities that are involved in this type of thing. You have people who just want to join just to kill, they are meatheads and are like the ones in this video saying "cmon let us shoot".

[Falcon]

Both sides of it are shady.

A) The helicopter should not have opened fire for suspicion of weapons. You confirm that beforehand, especially when there was no immediate danger. They did not seem to notice the helicopter, so they had time.

B) After the firing, the man brings children along with him. This is a really fucking stupid move on his part, and is reckless endangerment if I ever saw it. I honestly don't blame the soldiers for opening fire on this group, and I'll tell you why: Under the assumption they had (Insurgants with weapons), its not that far off to assume thats just an insurgant with children body-shields. And you know what? Safe assumption. Because no sane fucking man brings his own fucking children into a fucking area that was just fired upon by the military. You don't endanger your kids. This is what pisses me off the most. Not the fact that they got shot, though its saddening. Not the fact that they're going off and talking about it like its a game, though its angering. The fact that he brought children to such a hostile area with no care. Especially considering he was an innocent man. They were innocent. And he pulled the most suspicious move possible in the given situation.

C) The 'rescue' vehicle...this is another thing that bothers me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it the rescue vehicle that hit the body when it ran it over? I don't know, I get that it was in a rush, and that lends a lot to it being a target to hit. A...normal ambulance wouldn't hit a body laying on the ground. Heavily suspicious yet again.

Though, I'm not entirely sure. The one that hit the body, that -was- the ambulance, right? Or was it some other vehicle? I'm not entirely sure.

D) I don't like the cover-up. Played straight its just sad, but nothing that troubling. Shit happens. That's what it could have been called. But now that they covered it up like its a terrible intentional event, they're going to get a lot of backlash for it. Comically enough, anyone want to take bets on if anyone is going to spin this vs Obama despite occuring before his term starting?

[Elvis]

No one in Iraq should have a gun. For no reason. Just accept that your country has been invaded and put your trust in the US government and military who love Arabs and Muslims.

We all know, we'd do the same if Arabs and Muslims invaded, occupied and then tried to set up a government for us.

[Elvis]

Sprinkle some crack on these sand niggers and be done with it.

[Mizango]

Had we only not passed healthcare...

[Rhinox]

Its ok to fire on the van guys. Obviously they had a Corpse launcher and the Apache pilots hit it before they loaded it.

[Mizango]

Sprinkle some crack on these sand niggers and be done with it.

Training Day 2?

[Weltall]

Really? I mean seriously? How do you possibly expect them to know that the individuals are not armed inside the van? Why are you so sure there are no weapons in that van? You can clearly hear the reactions of the pilots asking to engage because he believes they are picking up weapons and bodies. These reporters were mingled together with individuals CLEARLY carrying weapons. Not to mention they don't even know they are fucking reporters. They can't sort out who is who when they don't fucking know that. Don't be an idiot. A van in a hostile environment comes rolling down the street picking up bodies and possibly weapons, and you're gonna let them go where-ever they please and potentially shoot at your ground troops?

That van isn't labeled as medical personnel and they aren't uniformed.

Shinzon is pretty much on point here, even though I don't agree with any of the war stuff. If you are in that Heli and just shot those people, are you going to hesitate on the van crowd when there is a decent chance they have a rocket launcher? Hell no that person shooting isn't.

If you just seen people get shot by a helicopter from your van, you would have to be downright stupid to get out and go run over to them....

Edit - I haven't watched the vid yet because I am at work, but it sounds like X ppl with guns get shot, and Y people from a van pull up, get out, and get shot too?