Feminists - A question.

[miokomioko]

posting on the internet is way too easy...

[Kuya]

It is true that pro-men movements at times get unfairly characterized as mysogynistic much like anti-israel groups get characterized as anti-semitic.

"there will never ever be another war ever again requiring a draft and we are all way too civilized for all that now"

I do not recall ever saying that the chances of a future draft are close to nil because we're somehow more "civilized" now.

[aduidarnenye]

It's because the pro-woman movement has successfully stamped out the pro-male movement, thus leaving them in the unenviable position of having the monopoly of the only "pro-equality"(as it relates to gender) game in town.

Which has led to the absolutely bizarre situation you describe, men feel the feminist movement should protect them too.

Men who actually try to protect male rights are ostracized by both women AND men(who ascribe to above faulty train of thought) because of it.

tl;dr It's hard being right. But a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.

That's very silly. Feminism hasn't stamped out pro-men's movements. Men never had a pro-men's movement until recently. I've never seen feminists demonstrating against a sweat lodge meeting in an effort to stamp it out.

Also, there are only two genders. It's not really difficult to have a monopoly on the pro-equality "game" since one gender has been so far ahead of the other for such a long time. It's not like equality between the genders means one has more power and it flips back and forth like a tug-of-war.

Honestly, I think that a lot of men (not even most) feel threatened by women because they're an unknown. White men can more or less accept black men because they're still men after all. White women, however, better keep in line! Same goes for the black women as well!

Actually, the women's movement tagged alongside the civil rights movement and moved to the gay rights movement as black men tried to distance themselves from the women. They didn't even let black women speak at rallies in the 50s and 60s because they felt the men had more interesting things to say.

I consider myself a feminist and I think that no one should have to sign up for conscription, whether male or female. However, I also feel that able bodied adults (male and female) should sign up for military service if their country is in need.

[Darus Grey]

Where to even start with how wrong you are...

That's very silly. Feminism hasn't stamped out pro-men's movements.

Really? Last I checked, outside of being at the very extreme end(femnazism) there is not very many negatives to being a "Feminist". However if I even dare to tell people I'm a pro-male rights activist, I get shit on with any number of derogatories and dismissed.

Men never had a pro-men's movement until recently.

Really? Maybe you should reconsider that thought.

I've never seen feminists demonstrating against a sweat lodge meeting in an effort to stamp it out.

Maybe try looking next time instead of making it up as you go along.

Also, there are only two genders.

Thanks for clarifying, I was unaware.

Honestly, I think that a lot of men (not even most) feel threatened by women because they're an unknown.

lol...

[aduidarnenye]

Really? Last I checked, outside of being at the very extreme end(femnazism) there is not very many negatives to being a "Feminist". However if I even dare to tell people I'm a pro-male rights activist, I get shit on with any number of derogatories and dismissed.

Every movement that has ever existed has extremities. You make it seem like the majority of feminists are feminazis out there attempting to stamp down your hard-earned rights.

I don't believe that majority of men in North America are so anti-women's rights that they're out there attempting to keep all women barefoot and pregnant in kitchens making sandwiches. Not even a large minority. And despite what I read on BG I don't even believe it of most BG posters.

If you're such a pro-male rights activist then put together the things you want men to achieve, build an organisation, and get working on pro-men's rights instead of bitching about what women have achieved in the last 100 years out of the thousands of years of human civilisation. What is it men are lagging behind in terms of gender equality anyways? Other than this draft thing, which I've already stated should be removed for both genders.

[miokomioko]

I honestly think that men just. don't. care.

[Kuya]

I honestly think that men just. don't. care.

Most don't. It's a fact.

[Darus Grey]

Every movement that has ever existed has extremities. You make it seem like the majority of feminists are feminazis out there attempting to stamp down your hard-earned rights.

I don't believe that majority of men in North America are so anti-women's rights that they're out there attempting to keep all women barefoot and pregnant in kitchens making sandwiches. Not even a large minority. And despite what I read on BG I don't even believe it of most BG posters.

If you're such a pro-male rights activist then put together the things you want men to achieve, build an organisation, and get working on pro-men's rights instead of bitching about what women have achieved in the last 100 years out of the thousands of years of human civilisation. What is it men are lagging behind in terms of gender equality anyways? Other than this draft thing, which I've already stated should be removed for both genders.

Maybe you should actually study up on what you talk about so you don't seem foolish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_rights

The bibliography being more relevant than the article.

Most don't. It's a fact.

This is more true than I'm willing to admit =/

[Stumblingdrunk]

this thread was better before they let the women start posting

[Kuya]

Men walk on eggshells when they try to claim they need to defend their rights and interests. But when i make a plain statement like that, it lacks context and ignores a few issues (it makes it seem like i'm denying the issues women faced or still face or that i'm blaming women for all or some of the problems men might currently have). For example, the argument over equality misses the fact that the term's context is of one where men had (according to some, still do) more rights than women, and thus women claimed that they wanted equal rights to men because men had more, and many of those rights, women argued, were unfairly denied to women.

This means, of course, that one has to be careful of using the phrase equality without its context and taking it to absurd degrees in which one claims that women want to be exacly like men, penis and all or have everything that men have. For starters, why would men want to have the right to an abortion? It simply becomes absurd.

Perhaps i am just posting for the sake of posting.

[Stumblingdrunk]

you are one of the women i was referring to

[Kashka]

Isn't the bit about women making .70 of what men make bull shit too? I've never seen a legit source for that info.

That number is calculated by simply taking the mean pay for full time workers for both genders and comparing them, so by virtue of that it doesn't account for experience, skill, hours worked, job selection, and other factors.

Generally, the biggest rationalizations for the wage gap are:

1) Women tend to choose jobs with less pay but more benefits/personally rewarding than men do. Nursing vs. office jobs etc.

2) For full time workers, men tend to work more hours than women do. Apparently the wage gap decreases a good amount if you compare wages in $$/hour earned instead. This also factors in to the productivity thing.

3) Women tend to take more/all of the time off from work when they have kids compared to men. As a result, they don't gain the work time experience/raises and promotions that men do. It gets compounded even more over time because bosses are especially leery of promoting a woman who's already a mother, and since the husband is making even more by the time the second kid is born compared to the wife, there's an even greater pressure for her to be the one to bear the brunt of childrearing responsibilities than the first time. This is probably the biggest one, since I think the gap closes to like 95 cents to a man's dollar when comparing childless singles.

Generally when this argument comes up it devolves into one side claiming women's choices are to blame while the other argues that were promotions equally given out and men to take a greater share of responsibility at home the gap would be smaller. Sweden's parental leave policy tries to reflect this by forcing 3 months off for both parents with the other 6 months to be divided how the parents wish. There's also an argument that feminized jobs like nursing are undervalued as a result of being feminized and don't make as much as they should, which factors into the gap as well.

[joft]

*crying for all the men out there who got no rights*

stay strong my brothers! keep hope alive! we shall overcome

[Dimmauk]

Can we finally get rid of some of the bullshit we do or think he should do for women now?

For example:

Ordering their food
Buying their food/drinks
Lighting the Cigarettes
Opening their doors

[Vail]

That number is calculated by simply taking the mean pay for full time workers for both genders and comparing them, so by virtue of that it doesn't account for experience, skill, hours worked, job selection, and other factors.

Generally, the biggest rationalizations for the wage gap are:

1) Women tend to choose jobs with less pay but more benefits/personally rewarding than men do. Nursing vs. office jobs etc.

2) For full time workers, men tend to work more hours than women do. Apparently the wage gap decreases a good amount if you compare wages in $$/hour earned instead. This also factors in to the productivity thing.

3) Women tend to take more/all of the time off from work when they have kids compared to men. As a result, they don't gain the work time experience/raises and promotions that men do. It gets compounded even more over time because bosses are especially leery of promoting a woman who's already a mother, and since the husband is making even more by the time the second kid is born compared to the wife, there's an even greater pressure for her to be the one to bear the brunt of childrearing responsibilities than the first time. This is probably the biggest one, since I think the gap closes to like 95 cents to a man's dollar when comparing childless singles

someone's read "the myth of male power" or atleast watched youtube videos on the book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtGwBsKgKs

[Kashka]

I haven't read that book, it's just that those are the general arguments around that discussion. Also, I support the notion that men should take more responsibility at home/in child rearing and I generally like the way the swede's do their parental leave program.

From what I know about Warren Farrell he's a bit of dick, or at the very least pointlessly incendiary. He's the guy who said on the daily show that the men of today are in the same position rights/liberation wise as women were in the 60s, if anyone saw that. He makes a point of saying outrageous things for attention though...

[Warudo Ecksu]

Can we finally get rid of some of the bullshit we do or think he should do for women now?

For example:

Ordering their food
Buying their food/drinks
Lighting the Cigarettes
Opening their doors

Guys don't do any of this shit.

[Darus Grey]

Guys don't do any of this shit.

Damn straight.

[Faris]

did anyone mention this bullshit law; divorce = woman takes half your shit?

this is what you get when you give women "equal" rights...

a woman is not equal to a man, both are different.
and im also not saying a woman is lower than a man, they are equal on that scale (they are both humans)

but you cannot simply treat a man, the same way you treat a woman.

women always bitch about how it is unfair that if a guy has intercourse with many girls, he is a legend. But a girl flirts with just two boys in a year she is slut.

In response the boy says, if a key opens lots of locks; it is a master key.

But if a lock is opened by many keys then it is a shitty lock.

[Kuya]

In response the boy says, if a key opens lots of locks; it is a master key.

But if a lock is opened by many keys then it is a shitty lock.

lol