Is capitalism a religion?

[Kuya]

Kind of funny that i find in a videogame what is possibly the best answer for this thread:

Andrew Ryan. He reckoned the free market was some kinda holy spirit gonna lead us all over the rainbow -- and I recon it's a big fat hooker too dim to spot a wooden nickel. So old Andy went an' became his own ghost, and I whittled nickels 'till I made a mint.

And then capitalism was a zombie.

Zombie bank, to be precise!

[guartz]

Eh, Kuya. It's a myth.

Propagated over and over to give a nation a sense of purpose and uniqueness. I see how somebody can mistake it for a religion.

[Rothbardian]

You are aware there is no Nation on this Earth that currently has as their economic and political system, Capitalism, correct?

Generally, the vast majority of Nation's on this Earth currently run through an amalgam of Menshevism, Mercantilism, and Fascism.

One can hardly think that having a State-monopoly Central Bank and currency which underlies all economic action would be classified as Capitalism? What a fucking joke.

Yeah, privately held capital and production is Capitalism, therefore State monopolized currency and banking is therefore Capitalism.

Does not compute.

As a general requirement, in order for Capitalism to properly be applied, and indeed be recognized there must be conditions to be met:

- No Central Bank
+ Free-Banking
- No legal tender
+ Market Currency
- No Income Tax, No Capital Tax, No Business Tax, No Property Tax, etc.
+ If you have to tax, low-flat tariff tax on all goods
- No Social Net (No Welfarism)
- No Monopoly (That is defined as; Government granted privilege-- Read: Public Works, Roads, Waterways, Utilities, etc.)

There are disagreements of course, between the Nozickians and Rothbardian/Molinarians.

Edit: No, Capitalism is not a religion, unless you believe Social Sciences are Religions.

[Plow]

The president is black and has a white house? wtf broken government

[dudeguy]

You are aware there is no Nation on this Earth that currently has as their economic and political system, Capitalism, correct?

It sounds like you are arguing semantics based on sub-categories of capitalism. Isn't the form of capitalism you are describing called Laissez-Faire or is that a redundant title?

Or is it that a mixed economy automatically negate ones ability to call it capitalism at all?

[Rothbardian]

It sounds like you are arguing semantics based on sub-categories of capitalism. Isn't the form of capitalism you are describing called Laissez-Faire or is that a redundant title?

Or is it that a mixed economy automatically negate ones ability to call it capitalism at all?

It is a redundant title.

See here:

http://mises.org/daily/4222

Yes, Social Democracy/Menshevism is wholly seperate from Capitalism.

[dudeguy]

Next you're gonna say that no country in the world is a true democracy!!!

[Max™]

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/isms.jpg

Incidentally, I didn't realize that Rothbard was a proponent of anarcho-capitalism, nor that libertarianism is so closely related to it.

I thought there was a lot of stuff you always ranted about that made inherent sense, but couldn't figure out what the fuck the libertarian argument was.

[Rothbardian]

Next you're gonna say that no country in the world is a true democracy!!!

So then, can you name me the "sub-sets" of other Economic systems? An Economic system is precise. It circumscribes basic tenets and further specializes those. In order to fulfill the definition and label they must meet these requirements. Having a Central Bank, State-Monopoly currency and Banking is hardly privately held capital and production of goods and services is it?

(And by private I mean no influence whatsoever from the State, either being taxation that encourages behavior and distorts market processes, regulations, privilege, etc.)

Now, what do you think underlies all economic activity? What do you use in all your economic activities?

[Rothbardian]

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/isms.jpg

Incidentally, I didn't realize that Rothbard was a proponent of anarcho-capitalism, nor that libertarianism is so closely related to it.

I thought there was a lot of stuff you always ranted about that made inherent sense, but couldn't figure out what the fuck the libertarian argument was.

Lol, that is awesome. Thanks for the laugh ;p Anarchists are so riddled with equivocation that it is even more sub-sectional than the metal-genre lol.

[dudeguy]

I think the definition you use is merely too strict. There may be pure capitalism, but even with state interventionism there remains private individuals who buy and own private property, invest capital in that property and make a profit from it. Supply/Demand remains a regulatory market force on prices and wages are decided largely by the employer and the value of the employees labor.

I'm not pretending to be knowledgeable in economics and I'm sure you can thoroughly deconstruct my argument. All I will say is that if capitalism is defined by the parameters you have defined, it is only a Utopian ideology and nothing more. At no time has there and no time will there ever be true capitalism.

[Qalbert]

Obviously it's a religion. It's a system of beliefs based on profits.

[Rothbardian]

Obviously it's a religion. It's a system of beliefs based on profits.

Wrong. Capitalism is based on private property which is Natural Law, ever-increasing capital which drives all economic activity, and a system of profit-loss which rewards those best who meet the demands of the consumer, and incidentally arrives us at prices. Prices, necessary to facilitate efficient use of goods and services. You ever wonder why there is so much waste, corruption, rationing, in systems that cannot accurately price goods?

[Qalbert]

whooooosh

[Max™]

lol

Yeah, he got ya good, R-ian.

[Rothbardian]

I think the definition you use is merely too strict. There may be pure capitalism, but even with state interventionism there remains private individuals who buy and own private property, invest capital in that property and make a profit from it. Supply/Demand remains a regulatory market force on prices and wages are decided largely by the employer and the value of the employees labor.

I'm not pretending to be knowledgeable in economics and I'm sure you can thoroughly deconstruct my argument. All I will say is that if capitalism is defined by the parameters you have defined, it is only a Utopian ideology and nothing more. At no time has there and no time will there ever be true capitalism.

Would you say you own your property? If you own something how can you be taxed on it? How can the State take it away from you for transient reasons (Eminent Domain)? Among a myriad of other reasons I can list. There is no Nation on this Earth where there is private property. You do not own your property. The State does. You merely lease it. Failure to pay your taxes will result in "your" property being taken from you, moreover, upon your death a huge swath of "your" property will be appropriated from you by the State.

That's private property?!

[Rothbardian]

lol

Yeah, he got ya good, R-ian.

Perhaps so. I'm not one too quick on the take on sarcasm on the interwebz

[dudeguy]

Would you say you own your property? If you own something how can you be taxed on it? How can the State take it away from you for transient reasons (Eminent Domain)? Among a myriad of other reasons I can list. There is no Nation on this Earth where there is private property. You do not own your property. The State does. You merely lease it. Failure to pay your taxes will result in "your" property being taken from you, moreover, upon your death a huge swath of "your" property will be appropriated from you by the State.

That's private property?!

As I said, it's as private as it ever will be. Your definitions are purely ideological and exist only as concepts; do you see what you are putting forward to ever possibly happen in the future? It is as likely as a true communist state existing for any considerable length of time.

[Xno Kappa]

No.

[Beckwin]

if anyone needs an example of how dogmatic capitalism is, keep reading rothbardian's posts.

on a related note, I always found the axiomatic nature of capitalist philosophy to be quite analogous to religious dogmas.