Random Question Thread IX: Mathology 101

[Darkmagi]

I wouldn't discard this idea so fast, in the event that you /nin and your acc is capped I'm pretty sure it would outdo Gaxe in a lot of cases. Punisher/joy for city dyna? Idk

[rog]

I wouldn't discard this idea so fast, in the event that you /nin and your acc is capped I'm pretty sure it would outdo Gaxe in a lot of cases. Punisher/joy for city dyna? Idk

No it wouldn't. Even with ridill, dw is situational, there's absolutely no chance of it being better than ga without ridill.

[Darkmagi]

Afaik Ridill /nin destroys gaxe /nin in city dynamis, this shouldn't be too much worse? I'll stand by til the math people come in.

[Falaras]

From what I understand for most events Ridill is clearly superior (Since most events have low evasion, Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, whatever) I would like to see someone elses opinion, Thorny's would be great.

[Darkmagi]

Sadly Thorny is temp bant from media drama

[Dooom]

Ridill could be pretty amazing pre-Magins. Only ever seen it compared to Perdu though, Rune Chopper capped haste and the new multi-hit GA may change things. Shamaya's LJ had a comparison of it, not a perfect one, but a decent enough thing to refer to.

[Darkmagi]

Pretty sure if acc is sufficient and you are unable to Hasso, Ridill > Gaxe. Lowman dynamis etc.

[rog]

dw is in fact great for things like limbus, dyna, ein, etc, but it's not that much better than a proper ga build, especially now with a good DA ga. I'm really not sure punisher/rid beats the da ga /nin for those, but if it does, it's not by much, and there's simply no way punisher/joy would beat it.

[Shinryuu]

Pretty sure if acc is sufficient and you are unable to Hasso, Ridill > Gaxe. Lowman dynamis etc.

OAT GAX should make it close, otherwise this is very true.

[LinktheDeme]

I was wondering about

Dragonmaw :
DMG 11 Delay 590
DMG+28 Delay + 70
Occasionally Attacks twice.

With silver bullets (DMG:81, Delay:240 ) so I think a net damage of 120 with net delay of 900

vs

Astrild
DMG: 70 Delay: 524
DMG: +10

with kabura arrow (DMG +38 Delay: 90) for a net DMG of 118 and Delay of 614

I was thinking that the occasionally attacks twice gun would come out ahead since low base damage on gun isn't a huge factor for marksmanship since the damage comes from the ammo.

A few things I was wondering is:
-Could someone post the math difference or at least explain the formulas how to calculate the damage while taking into consideration snapshot merits, Velocity shot and the other snapshot pieces (outside of salvage/assault). Also the % chance of rapid shot occuring
-If the % is known for the double attack and if it is double attack rather than double damage (resulting in double tp essentially).
-If the double attack works on each individual hit of barrage
-If the wRANK(I believe that is what it is called) is based on base damage, base damage + bullets, or all dmg is netted. And how it would influence the calculations.

edit: hmm or if this is a question for the what's better thread I guess?

[Vodou]

I was wondering about

Dragonmaw :
DMG 11 Delay 590
DMG+28 Delay + 70
Occasionally Attacks twice.

With silver bullets (DMG:81, Delay:240 ) so I think a net damage of 120 with net delay of 900

vs

Astrild
DMG: 70 Delay: 524
DMG: +10

with kabura arrow (DMG +38 Delay: 90) for a net DMG of 118 and Delay of 614

I was thinking that the occasionally attacks twice gun would come out ahead since low base damage on gun isn't a huge factor for marksmanship since the damage comes from the ammo.

A few things I was wondering is:
-Could someone post the math difference or at least explain the formulas how to calculate the damage while taking into consideration snapshot merits, Velocity shot and the other snapshot pieces (outside of salvage/assault). Also the % chance of rapid shot occurring
-If the % is known for the double attack and if it is double attack rather than double damage (resulting in double tp essentially).
-If the double attack works on each individual hit of barrage
-If the wRANK(I believe that is what it is called) is based on base damage, base damage + bullets, or all dmg is netted. And how it would influence the calculations.

edit: hmm or if this is a question for the what's better thread I guess?

Just a few things:

1) ammo delay is not additive to ranged weapons except for TP calculation (not sure if you knew that since you didn't mention TP, so just in case.)
2) how DA works on barrage has not been posted unless it was in the last 2 days (the person who posted it quoted anecdotal results at first, although logically it should be at 40%). I would doubt barrage gets this effect since it has some different mechanics, but I could see it getting the effect as well.
3) wRank is the weapon, not the weapon and ammo
4) the % of the DA is known (on melee weapons). Check the magian thread to see if someone posted the answers to DA% and DA effect. I can't recall if its double damage on 1 shot (at 1x or 2x tp) or 2 x arrows all at once (2 shots each with tp and separate damage).
5) if you are standing at the same distance the gun vs bow will potentially have different results (so a factor is from what distance are you shooting.)

There is a live magian thread. This is better posted there.

[LinktheDeme]

Just a few things:

1) ammo delay is not additive to ranged weapons except for TP calculation (not sure if you knew that since you didn't mention TP, so just in case.)
2) how DA works on barrage has not been posted unless it was in the last 2 days (the person who posted it quoted anecdotal results at first, although logically it should be at 40%). I would doubt barrage gets this effect since it has some different mechanics, but I could see it getting the effect as well.
3) wRank is the weapon, not the weapon and ammo
4) the % of the DA is known (on melee weapons). Check the magian thread to see if someone posted the answers to DA% and DA effect. I can't recall if its double damage on 1 shot (at 1x or 2x tp) or 2 x arrows all at once (2 shots each with tp and separate damage).
5) if you are standing at the same distance the gun vs bow will potentially have different results (so a factor is from what distance are you shooting.)

There is a live magian thread. This is better posted there.

I appreciate your response and I will go post in the other forum.

The reason I mentioned the delay was for TP since that would be a huge factor in calculating the overall damage.

For the wRANK does the +DMG effect it or is it without the +DMG? I can't remember what this actually does effect I think it is base damage or something like that? But I believe that I remember that weapons like maneater use the original DMG to get wRANK and the latent effect damage does not effect it?

I also assumed they would both be at their optimal distance for damage

[Maguile]

Any tips for beating Suzaku for a shell with very minimal sky experience?

[stewie]

Any tips for beating Suzaku for a shell with very minimal sky experience?

Um... Stun -aga's, chainspell stun it's chainspell?

[Maguile]

Um... Stun -aga's, chainspell stun it's chainspell?

Yeah kinda figured that from the wiki, guessing it has no other surprises eh? Doesnt hit like a truck or anything?

[Villian]

Just curious about how well do dw axe/magian axe do at 75 (asking for a friend)? Also is it worth it to go for magian OAT axe for war/nin with ridill or should I just be happy with Magian OAT Gaxe? (for me xD)

[Draylo]

Yeah kinda figured that from the wiki, guessing it has no other surprises eh? Doesnt hit like a truck or anything?

No not particularly, easy fight if you can get that down with chainspell. Most cases if you are with competent players you can shadowbind it and have everyone get away as well.

[rog]

Yeah kinda figured that from the wiki, guessing it has no other surprises eh? Doesnt hit like a truck or anything?

Nah, it doesn't hit too hard. Iirc hits my rdm for around 100 damage (with -45/50% pdt). As long as you don't try to blood tank it, it's pretty easy.

Just curious about how well do dw axe/magian axe do at 75 (asking for a friend)? Also is it worth it to go for magian OAT axe for war/nin with ridill or should I just be happy with Magian OAT Gaxe? (for me xD)

Like i said before, dw is worthless without ridill.

With ridill, you should ideally get both. If you really don't want to however (understandably, as it's quite a bit of work for them), i guess it depends on what you do more. GA for hnm type mobs, axe if you primarily use war for merit level mobs or weaker.

[Vodou]

I appreciate your response and I will go post in the other forum.

The reason I mentioned the delay was for TP since that would be a huge factor in calculating the overall damage.

For the wRANK does the +DMG effect it or is it without the +DMG? I can't remember what this actually does effect I think it is base damage or something like that? But I believe that I remember that weapons like maneater use the original DMG to get wRANK and the latent effect damage does not effect it?

I also assumed they would both be at their optimal distance for damage

wRank on the relics / magians / mythics is determined from base damage plus augmented damage (e.g., on Spharai its 23+6, if finished, which changes it to wRank 3, from 2.). Not all weapons will have that change of course, as not all were given sufficient augments. Latent damage iirc works differently and does not translate as part of wRank.

I assume the other augmented weapons from quests also work the same as the magian moogle augments, although I've never read it or tested it myself.

Regarding tp, its a factor, but if the added delay translates into added tp, it's only relevant if the added tp translates into more damage. That is problematic since while it might give you more tp, it might not give you a drop in x-hit build. Then, you're left with how to convert existing gear (with stp) into non stp gear such that you enhance your damage without losing your x-hit and still overcome the longer delay. Not difficult in theory, but not as unequivocal as actually dropping an x-hit

Short version: whether or not one can convert extra tp into enough damage to offset the added delay may not be obvious.

[LinktheDeme]

Oh and also does velocity shot and snap shot effect TP build at all? Sorry I haven't played ranger in a few years(Before snap shot gear and merits were added) and I'm thinking of picking it up again and i'm prospecting future weapons