Random Question Thread IX: Mathology 101

[Eldelphia]

I've asked before but no one answered. If someone could answer it would be much appreciated.

How much XP from campaign does it take to rank up on a over 30-day expired?

I don't really understand what you're asking. WHen medal expires you lose it no?

[StevenW]

How can you tell a mob's evasion exactly?

I'm wondering because I'm just playing around with FFXIcalculator, and I'm trying to make gear setups for each specific kind of mob.

Really I'd just like to know the level/evasion of merit mobs, such as mamools and birds.

Thanks

[rog]

How can you tell a mob's evasion exactly?

I'm wondering because I'm just playing around with FFXIcalculator, and I'm trying to make gear setups for each specific kind of mob.

Really I'd just like to know the level/evasion of merit mobs, such as mamools and birds.

Thanks

Add/remove accuracy until a difference of 1 acc changes the /check message.

Though the stats for all the popular merit mobs should be on wiki.

[StevenW]

Thanks ^^

[miokomioko]

I don't really understand what you're asking. WHen medal expires you lose it no?

No, you don't lose your medal until you get an evaluation and accept the negative feedback.

If a medal's "magical seal" is expired (30+ days since receiving it), it will technically remain in your posession and you can teleport around and participate in Campaign, although you will not be able to get Sigil.

When your medal is expired, asking for an evaluation will result in you being forced to accept the evaluation whatever they decide, thus why his question is valid.

I would, to be safe, go for a solid 15~20k campaign experience on my expired medal before I talked to the Evaluation NPC again.

The way this works, if you are going to not play for a while, Campaign until you get a positive evaluation, but don't accept it. When you finally get around to turning it in a few months later, even though expired, you will be promoted to the next medal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, at least that's how it used to function unless they fixed that.

[Radec]

Expired medals cannot participate in campaign, otherwise correct - even if you already have enough xp/an to rankup or keep your medal, the Arbiter will turn down your request for tags. You can't take OPs without a valid medal either, so once it's expired just take the eval and rankup again in 5 days.

Edit:

The way this works, if you are going to not play for a while, Campaign until you get a positive evaluation, but don't accept it. When you finally get around to turning it in a few months later, even though expired, you will be promoted to the next medal.

This is correct, do this if you don't want to campaign for a long time.

[StevenW]

This feels like a stupid question, but I'm trying to make a decent meat build for bird merit parties with polearm. I have PCC, haub+1, Cuch mantle, yt seems difficult to cap it without ace's helm, usukane sune-ate, and toreador's ring.

I'm wondering... in a situation where I'm at about 80.8% acc, would dropping 3 haste and 5 attack to bring acc up to 86.8% be worth it...?

Also some people have mentioned that Zanshin is effective for increasing accuracy further than what FFXIcalculator says... Well, what would be a comfortable level of accuracy to stop at?

Would I be better off just sticking to my haste/5hit build and using attack gear (on ws) and sushi? With sushi I cap acc extremely easily...

[rog]

86.5/80.5=7.45% increase

Assuming hasso, turban, dusk, swift, kitty pants, haste, march x2 (i assume 3 haste 5 atk is dusk gloves, yes?) is 61% haste.

.39/.36=8.33%

Lets say 450 atk, 5 more is 1.11% increase.

So 9.44% increase with dusk.

Not 100% sure how zanshin factors in, but if i'm not mistaken it should be:

80.5% hit rate:
19.5%*.45=0.08775 more atks with capped acc = 0.0833625 increase over base hit rate. So ~88.8% hit rate.

With +12 acc:
.135*.45=0.06075, *.95=0.0577125. 86.5+5.7=92.2%

92.2/88.8= 3.82% total increase?

Unless i did something wrong, dusk are more than twice the damage increase.

[StevenW]

86.5/80.5=7.45% increase

Assuming hasso, turban, dusk, swift, kitty pants, haste, march x2 (i assume 3 haste 5 atk is dusk gloves, yes?) is 61% haste.

.39/.36=8.33%

Lets say 450 atk, 5 more is 1.11% increase.

So 9.44% increase with dusk.

Not entirely sure how zanshin factors in, but if i'm not mistaken it should be:

80.5% hit rate:
19.5%*.45=0.08775 more atks with capped acc = 0.0833625 increase over base hit rate. So ~88.8% hit rate.

With +12 acc:
.135*.45=0.06075, *.95=0.0577125. 86.5+5.7=92.2%

92.2/88.8= 3.82% total increase?

Unless i did something wrong, dusk are more than twice the damage increase.

Wow, that is pretty impressive. I guess sticking to sushi might be my best bet, I don't think 80% is really too acceptable for accuracy, I'll have to look into zanshin some more and see...

[Darkmagi]

Don't touch meat if your acc is that low. Capped acc + max haste gear > atk. Is there any way for a meat build on birds to ever be viable with pole? Hasso, capped merits, etc.

[rog]

Well with sushi you'd have capped acc, bring you to 95+(5*.45)=97.25% hit rate. 97.25/88.5=9.89% increase.

kabobs would be aprox 62 atk, fstr+1-2. Again assuming 450 atk (sorry, no idea what you would have here), is 512/450=13.7%, and fstr+2 assuming 85 str (85 str would be +2 fstr) is 99/97=2.1%. 98/97=1.03% if you only get 1 fstr from it. That's 15.8% if you get 2 fstr, or 14.7% if you only get 1.

So yeah, i'd go with meat even with an 80.5% hit rate. Though accounting for the difference between ws frequency with sushi, and ws damage with meat probably brings it a bit closer, meat should still win i believe.

[Nightfyre]

Don't touch meat if your acc is that low. Capped acc + max haste gear > atk. Is there any way for a meat build on birds to ever be viable with pole? Hasso, capped merits, etc.

Last I heard Cream Soda uses full Usu + meat for birds, but uses mix/match with pizza elsewhere. He has full polearm merits, sits around 90% hitrate with Hasso up.

EDIT: just under 400 accuracy in TP for ~93% average hitrate between the level 81 and 82 birdies.

[miokomioko]

Wow, I was almost certain that I had participated in campaign after my medal had expired... I must have only used the teleport NPCs or something (which I'm still pretty sure you can do). I thought Sigil was the only thing you lost access to until you evaluated.

[mdkuser]

Well with sushi you'd have capped acc, bring you to 95+(5*.45)=97.25% hit rate. 97.25/88.5=9.89% increase.

kabobs would be aprox 62 atk, fstr+1-2. Again assuming 450 atk (sorry, no idea what you would have here), is 512/450=13.7%, and fstr+2 assuming 85 str (85 str would be +2 fstr) is 99/97=2.1%. 98/97=1.03% if you only get 1 fstr from it. That's 15.8% if you get 2 fstr, or 14.7% if you only get 1.

So yeah, i'd go with meat even with an 80.5% hit rate. Though accounting for the difference between ws frequency with sushi, and ws damage with meat probably brings it a bit closer, meat should still win i believe.

In a word, if you do not want to read the following maths (aproximated) you're wrong because: the sushi build uses more attack gear than the meat build (especially during WS), and because zanshin does not happen during WS......

Normally with sushi builds you use STR ring instead of torreador, or cerb+1 instead of cuchu, or love torque instead of PCC, gondo-sizunori instead of tomoe, merman's earring instead of spinel ETC. Gondo-shizunori is about 1% better than tomoe if you neglect the acc difference btw ( at least what im saying is true for SAM with merited polearm).

Real maths:

melee improvement: 97.5/88.5=+10.2% indeed.

WS improvement: you do not divide 97.5 by 88.5..... you compute the average number of rounds needed to reach 100 Tp in both cases and divide the numbers, and it depends on your X hit build as well... Using the exact formulas for 5-hit builds ( see magian threads). Although, you can use your 97.5/88.5 approximation it will still lead to sushi winning.

with a=95% accuracy z=45% zanshin and d=15% double attack:

attack Rounds untill TP=3.711

with a=80% accuracy z=45% zanshin and d=15% double attack:

attack Rounds=4.176


Improvement: melee= 97.55/88.52=+10.2%
WS = 4.176/3.711=+12.5%

Now look at the " meat build" you eat meat kabobs; 5STR and 60 attack, but you use cuchulain's mantle, torreador's ring, acc earring love torque etc. Let's compute the total accuracy of a good polearm meat build:

tomoe/rose/X/tiphia
turban/pcc/brutal/acc+3 earr
hauby+1/hachiman/ecphoria/rajas
cuchu/swift/byakkos/fumas

70 dex base, 30 dex from gear, caped polearm: 256 skill, hasso=+10, gear=+40

acc= 200+[56*0.9]+[100*0.75]+10+40=375

375 accuracy gives you 79% hit rate before zanshin, and that's with hasso, so your estimate of 80% isn't too far.

Your attack is about 370 before food in the meat build. Therefore you got ~432 after kabobs.

The crab sushi build only need 460 accuracy pre food to cap: you remove 15 accuracy from gear, typically take gondo-shizunori, foragers and love torque, for a total of 392 attack.

attacks comparison: if you use berserk whenever its up, the Ratio improvement during melee phase is:

(432*0.4+432*1.25*0.6)/(392*0.4+392*1.25*0.6)=497/451=+10.2%.

For WS, the difference is even worse because zanshin doesnt apply, and because your base attack will be higher...

Now take level correction into account, as well as minuets or chaos roll, or dia: let's say 300 DEF ( dia2) and +80 attack from chaos or minuet, and 7 level correction:

(577/300-0.35)/(531/300-0.35)=1.1079=+10.8% melee damage

less during wS: the meat build is dying for accuracy while the sushi build is auto caped; The meat build needs 32 more accuracy to cap: head= hissho hachimaki, hands=+10 acc, belt=+12 feet = rutters, should give you 95% WSacc ( my numbers actually give 94%...), +3 STR and +4 attack. The sushi build can just use: hissho hachimaki, O.kotes, rutters, etc: so the attack difference is now only ~15 out of berserk, so 15*0.4+15*1.25*0.6=17 with berserk, which leads to:

(581/300-0.35)/(564/300-0.35)=+3.7%


so, with Tomoe for both setups, the sushi build does:

1.102/1.1079=0,9947=-0.5% melee damage
and
1.125/1.037=+8.5% WS damage.

Now i forgot kabob's +5STR, but this is compensated by the fact teh sushi build can effectively TP in a STR ring as mentionned above, or just switch out Tomoe for Gondo-shizunori.

Conclusion: you're wrong, stop justifying meat builds and use sushi. It is cheap and good.

[Pendulum]

I might be missing something but why would you use PCC over Love Torque?

(7*0.9)+(5*0.75) = 10.05 acc (ie: 10) + 7 attack + whatever 5 dex does for your crit rate in TP. Compared to a flat 10 acc.

[Thorny]

It's stephano and he doesn't have a love torque? The same reason mdk's math includes a tiphia sting instead of a black tath.

Bigger problem is that I'm only seeing +6 stp(rose, brutal, ecphoria), am I blatantly retarded or are you advocating not getting 5hit?

[rog]

In a word, if you do not want to read the following maths (aproximated) you're wrong because: the sushi build uses more attack gear than the meat build (especially during WS), and because zanshin does not happen during WS......

Fair enough, i didn't even consider that. This is why i shouldn't do maths at almost 4am.

[mdkuser]

replace dusk by hachiman its a mistake, doesnt change the acc.

[Akyrey90]

turban, goliard saio, loq earring, dusk ledelsens+1, speed/velocious belt, and either dusk gloves+1 or tatsu with 3% haste augment(if you use tatsu you need NQ dusk, if you use dusk+1 you need nashira seraweels)

is it good to start the spell with full fc gear then switch to haste gears b4 the spell goes off or no?

[Thorny]

is it good to start the spell with full fc gear then switch to haste gears b4 the spell goes off or no?

That'll get you the cast speed, it won't have any different effect on recast though. Recast is calculated when spell ends, cast speed is calculated when cast starts. So yes, that's the right way to do it, but it won't change recast vs just macroing haste things.