Random Question Thread IX: Mathology 101

[Karbuncle]

Whats a good Counter Build for MNK?

Im level 71, Can add in 75 gear to reach for.

I assume the following would be norm:

Weap:CC/Ret---
Ear:Avengers
Hands:Danzo
Legs:AF+1 or Akidu
Feet:Relic

Anything im missing in say.. Body/Head/Waist/Back/Neck/Ring?

[Kirschy]

I'm pretty sure that's not right. I remember once, years ago, adding an extra 1% Haste to my NIN with a new piece of gear and seeing that while it took 1 second off the recast for Utsusemi: Ni, it did not reduce recast for Utsusemi: Ichi.

I guess it's possible that I had already hit the minimum recast, but I don't think so.

1% does not equal 1 second of recast. If you have a 30s recast and you add 1% haste, you're removing 30s * 1% = .3 seconds, leaving you with a 29.7s recast. This rounds down to 29 seconds. (Which is the point drwaffles was trying to make. If recast was rounded up, it would still be 30s.)

In that case adding 1% haste resulted in going from 30s->29s. Adding another 1% gives you 2% total. 30s*2% = .6 seconds off, leaving you with 29.3s recast. This still rounds down to 29 seconds. In the first example 1% resulted in a 1 second decrease, and in this example, an extra 1% leaves the recast unchanged. Depending on the initial recast of the spell being used, 1% could be the difference between having that extra second or two decreased from your recast.

The point Thorny is making is that not many have a different haste setups for various spells. Haste and Refresh spells have different recast timers, but there's no reason to not use one optimal recast option for both, esp if you are using spellcast.

[Soho]

Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, apathy's new standards are lol

Nah, it's not a standards thing man. I'm definitely the LS token n00b and probably one of the only casuals in the Shell. I'm pretty much only allowed to stick around because of some friends here that are far better players than I am lol.

You clearly take this game far more seriously than I do. Sorry that bothers you! All I can say in my defense is: at least I try to read this stuff when I can and learn from all you guys that know more than I do.

1% does not equal 1 second of recast. If you have a 30s recast and you add 1% haste, you're removing 30s * 1% = .3 seconds, leaving you with a 29.7s recast. This rounds down to 29 seconds. (Which is the point drwaffles was trying to make. If recast was rounded up, it would still be 30s.)

In that case adding 1% haste resulted in going from 30s->29s. Adding another 1% gives you 2% total. 30s*2% = .6 seconds off, leaving you with 29.3s recast. This still rounds down to 29 seconds. In the first example 1% resulted in a 1 second decrease, and in this example, an extra 1% leaves the recast unchanged. Depending on the initial recast of the spell being used, 1% could be the difference between having that extra second or two decreased from your recast.

The point Thorny is making is that not many have a different haste setups for various spells. Haste and Refresh spells have different recast timers, but there's no reason to not use one optimal recast option for both, esp if you are using spellcast.

I guess that's all I was saying. In my experience, 1% Haste didn't always equate to 1sec off recast, contrary to Drwaffles statement that it did.

[Karbuncle]

Macro relic feet for counterstance only. A counter build is only really useful for midcast on ichi while you retain capped acc. There isn't much you're missing that's worthwhile however.

Okay!

Was using it for campaign actually though, as MNK71/DNC if i can get a 70~% Counter rate i'd be more useful than not =(, Coupled with 35% PDT in Campaign i live long enough to keep myself alive with Waltz >.<

[Thorny]

Actually, the point was that going from 0 to 1% haste will always cut down your timer.

[AzazaelFenrir]

I just got my Noctourn Mail last night and was looking at how to change things. I am wondering if I am wrong in my thoughts that it actually almost a full time piece (for DRG).

Before I was using Askar for TPing, Heca for WS, Ares for Jump. I would still use Ares for /maging, but over all it seems that Noctorn Mail is actual equal or better all the way around.

Thoughts?

[drwaffles]

I guess that's all I was saying. In my experience, 1% Haste didn't always equate to 1sec off recast, contrary to Drwaffles statement that it did.

Reading back over it I didn't really phrase it properly. I meant that 1% Haste will always shave one second off a spell's recast timer if there is no Haste/Fast Cast already acting on it (i.e. the spell is at its base recast time), as Kirschy clarified.

[noodles355]

I was wrong on the polearm sam, I had completely underestimated how low their acc is without sushi. 382 in an acc heavy WS set with top gear, for example.
So yes, I take it all back about sushi vs meat for polearm sams.

My actual point was about you saying you'll have more attack in gear during WS, as if it's important, because it's not. You'll have more gear attack, but less attack overall. That was my point, you can't make up 60attack from gear changes.

[Syntex]

What would be the best route to merit a SMN?

I am unsure of what to merit as I read up on it via lolZam forums but still can't decide.

I heard that there is an acc cap with avatars based on high enough summoning skill and if that's the case is meriting Physical Acc or Magical Acc even worth doing or will it help land multiple hits of Pred Claws on high end mobs?

I currently don't do much endgame with SMN but I was thinking since the level 70 BP's are good on their own that making the merited magical BP's stronger with magical attack and acc merits is the way to go. I currently am unsure which to do but someone mentioned I should do garuda's BP because it allows me to cast a heal or to hastega then do a physical or magical BP without switching avatars is nice but will I be regretting it because its a wind based attack or does it really matter?

Also if I do garuda 5/5 what other avatar should I do to 5/5? Someone mentioned Titan because of not needing to swap avatars to do a defensive BP but I think it might be better to get an avatar with a better favor ability like Shiva for +10 MAB or Ifrit for 12% Double Attack so I can keep my party buffed adding more utility as a SMN.

Any other summoners out there have their T1 and T2 merits done and can offer some insight into this?

[Clerix]

A few pages back.

5MAB 5MACC

T2 is 5 wind blade and either 5 thunderstorm or 5 heavenly strike, preferably thunderstorm

[noodles355]

What was the accepted number for slugwinder's acc penalty at 100% TP? Didn't VZX do some tests ages ago? I used to know but have now forgotten.

[Aero]

Im pretty sure no one knows the Racc penalty for sure. I still have never even seen any formal testing to see if the Racc formula even follows the melee acc one. We cannot simply do /check tests like melee can; we have to parse and interpret information that way.

Until we can find some way of testing ranged attack this information will likely be nothing other than an educated guess. Things like RNG roll, sushi, pot-au-feu are all guesses when it comes to ranged attacks.

Im still convinced, until proven otherwise, half the ranged accuracy information out there is complete shit and nothing other than peoples (un)educated guesses. (Lets face it wiki isnt exactly always the best information simply due to the amount of idiots who edit it.)

[cdgreg]

Prelude to a Storm WOTG31 - Any experience/advice for this? Wiki discussion all talks about full pt setups, was hoping to do with 3-4?

[Kyte]

What was the accepted number for slugwinder's acc penalty at 100% TP? Didn't VZX do some tests ages ago? I used to know but have now forgotten.

I remember it being -40, but I easily could be wrong.

[Clerix]

I remember it being -40, but I easily could be wrong.

On KI COR forums, they said something about Slugshot being: 100%TP:-40, 200%TP:0, 300%TP:+40

[Limlight]

I've heard numbers close to this, but some sort of parsing would be kind of nice to see.

same those are the numbers i've always gone by. But i've never seen any exclusive testing.

[zard1977]

Are puks weak to piercing?

[Yugl]

Are puks weak to piercing?

Yes.

[Havok]

Yes.

Err, you sure? I thought they were just weak in general. (sea puks i mean)

[Nightfyre]

They're definitely weak to piercing.