Shadow Lord BCNM Unlocked

[Therin]

You can have your experience. You already proved that you have no grasp on melee mechanics, and seem to be ignoring the fact that the OAT great sword is on par with, if not better than Ragnarok. With that in mind, how could you, for even a second, doubt that the OAT scythe would completely obliterate Ragnarok in a pDIF-friendly situation?

I'm pretty sure I never said the OAT weapon wouldn't be excellent or better in a merit party. I'm talking about in situations that matter.

Really tired of people thinking that Bhaflau Thickets is the end-all measurement of FFXI.

[Tsuko_Asura]

A GS DRK is actually very close in damage to a Scythe DRK in most situations if neither have relics (the difference in a merit party parse is like 32% to 35%). I'm a firm believer that a Ragnarok played correctly would beat any other non-Apocalypse Scythe.

And this logic as a whole is just absurd.

"My fancy 100M+ relic weapon can just barely beat the Moliones's Sickle you bought for 50k, hells yeah!"

[Tsuko_Asura]

I'm pretty sure I never said the OAT weapon wouldn't be excellent or better in a merit party. I'm talking about in situations that matter.

Really tired of people thinking that Bhaflau Thickets is the end-all measurement of FFXI.

Ragnarok still isn't gaurenteed to be better than the OAT GS in a less pDIF-friendly situation, because you're still going to be limited to a non-Scourge WS that can accommodate for not having buffs.

And regardless, if you can't at least manage to get Chaos Roll to go along with your marches, get your ass off DRK and change to BRD or COR so your melee aren't wasting their time.

[Therin]

Again, people don't spend 100M+ on a Ragnarok to top parses in merit parties. If that was their main goal they would have gotten an Apocalypse.

[Tsuko_Asura]

..Except swap "merit parties" with "anything".

And I never said that upgrading Ragnarok for anything other than aesthetics wasn't retarded.

[AoshiZ]

Implies there is a point where it has non-diminishing returns.



From a pure DPS standpoint? Pretty much.

Sorry but the articles math is poor and incorrect.

Your Article states the following:
"For 66 attack to be a 13.8% increase to our attack value, our attack must be equal or lower to 66/.138. This value is 478.26 attack."

This mathmatical system takes no account for the enemies defense. His value of 478.26 Attack is derived by dividing the Attack given from minuet with the Percentage of Damage to be compared. If damage was based on a linear scale with the amount of attack you have equaling the amount of damage you produce then you could definitely use this formula. This authors formula is basically the following:

66 Valor Minuet/Total Attack = 13.8% Damage Increase/100 Percent

Sorry but thats not how FFXI's damage system works.

The author's premise on the damage% increase formula pretty much makes his argument null and void. Although I agree haste gains are increasing and massive, if your argument for your decision is based on this article... (although the end result of your opinion may have validity) the reasons why you have the opinion are flawed.

I also found your attack on my mathmatical ability impolite.

[Darkmagi]

Are you seriously trying to argue stacking attack over haste still? What is this I don't even...

[Jazz]

Carbonara? Are you serious? I feel like everyone's massively overestimating GS Acc. Even with the +20 Acc on the relic weapon and essentially perfect gear, you're looking at almost exactly 400 Acc before food. That's not even enough to cap at birds.

400 Acc is 91% hit rate on birds, you need 407 on birds for 95% which is capped hit rate, not hard at all with the right gear, yes even with GS. (specially with things like hasso, diabolic eye etc.)

I said that:

Even with Ragnarok's +20 acc, though of course "shit's situational" ...depends on what you're fighting etc. etc.

Also, I basically just stated earlier that:

Aurum body or Carbonara would be better than the Askar body IMO

Aurum has more accuracy than askar etc. and can eat pizza/+1 or whatever food if needed(Askar too, but idk..I feel like Aurum would be better than askar. I'm not a huge fan of askar body...it does have its uses if you don't need acc from the body, if you are solo etc. but meh...), then Carbonara for stuff where you won't need pizza or acc food...also can wear Ebody etc. "It's situational" ...

As mentioned, the weapon has acc+20. Also, there's GS merits, Souleater+25 acc when/if you have it up, Diabolic Eye acc+20 for 3 mins and a 5mins recast if you have it merited(only wait 2 mins to use again after it wears off), Hasso acc+10, and heck there's even lolZanshin with a 25% proc rate for /sam sub. and +34 accuracy bonus or a bonus of +17% hit rate on the Zanshin hit.

ehh... and just to be sure, are you suggesting that a Ragnarok user should not aim for a 7hit build then?

That estimate was with perfect Acc gear. Ancient Torque, Hollow Earring, Cuchulain's, etc.

would perfect gear for Ragnarok be the following then?

Rose strap, Fire bomblet, ace's helm, ancient torque, aurum body, dusk hands+1, hollow earring, rajas ring, Toreador's ring, homam feet, ASA legs with haste+3% and acc+7, velocious belt, and cuchulain's mantle.

(Can switch to turban, blitz ring etc.. depending on what you're fighting if acc permits, also some Diabolic eye up and down sets come to mind here too etc.)

That gives a 7hit/6hit rebuild while /sam with 431 delay. Further, assuming a hume race with 68 base DEX + 15dex from gear(Aurum body, Rajas, and hollow) + 76 acc from the gear listed above +20 acc from the weapon itself + GS merits...that gives a total accuracy of "414.7" and you only needed 407 to cap on birds. In addition that "414.7" acc is not even counting Souleater acc, not counting Diabolic eye acc, not counting hasso acc... etc. etc.

I feel like everyone's massively overestimating GS Acc.

I feel like you're massively underestimating GS Acc.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Let me get this straight: you, the person who's suggesting a crit-build, is now trying to insinuate that Failure doesn't understand this game's damage formulas?

[Tsuko_Asura]

All together now, LOL

[Nightfyre]

Sorry but the articles math is poor and incorrect.

Your Article states the following:
"For 66 attack to be a 13.8% increase to our attack value, our attack must be equal or lower to 66/.138. This value is 478.26 attack."

This mathmatical system takes no account for the enemies defense. His value of 478.26 Attack is derived by dividing the Attack given from minuet with the Percentage of Damage to be compared. If damage was based on a linear scale with the amount of attack you have equaling the amount of damage you produce then you could definitely use this formula. This authors formula is basically the following:

66 Valor Minuet/Total Attack = 13.8% Damage Increase/100 Percent

Sorry but thats not how FFXI's damage system works.

The author's premise on the damage% increase formula pretty much makes his argument null and void. Although I agree haste gains are increasing and massive, if your argument for your decision is based on this article... (although the end result of your opinion may have validity) the reasons why you have the opinion are flawed.

I also found your attack on my mathmatical ability impolite.

lol... Why don't you take it up with Failure then, seeing as they wrote that article?

And no, I can do my own math on the subject... No real reason to when it's already been done though.

EDIT: Beaten, but it was worth repeating.

[Tsuko_Asura]

would perfect gear for Ragnarok be the following then?

Rose strap, Fire bomblet, ace's helm, ancient torque, aurum body, dusk hands+1, hollow earring, rajas ring, Toreador's ring, homam feet, ASA legs with haste+3% and acc+7, velocious belt, and cuchulain's mantle.

Nothing that requires dropping turban and blitz is "perfect". Use pizza, stick attack in slots that you no longer require accuracy in, /fin

[AoshiZ]

Let me get this straight: you, the person who's suggesting a crit-build, is now trying to insinuate that Failure doesn't understand this game's damage formulas?

OMG are you fucken serious?

Tsuko please elaborate on how failure's assesment of :
"For 66 attack to be a 13.8% increase to our attack value, our attack must be equal or lower to 66/.138. This value is 478.26 attack."

Works with the FFXI system please.

How does a static number of 478 attack without account for defense = 13.8% inceased damage output?

[Tsuko_Asura]

I have to finish moving. I'll continue arguing with multiple idiots at once in a few hours.

Tata~

[AoshiZ]

Actually let me just make it easy for you. If a mob has 1 million defense and you hit for 0 and you get 66 attack ontop of lets just say 500 attack and you still hit for 0 then... your damage increase isn't 13.8%.

[Nightfyre]

OMG are you fucken serious?

Tsuko please elaborate on how failure's assesment of :
"For 66 attack to be a 13.8% increase to our attack value, our attack must be equal or lower to 66/.138. This value is 478.26 attack."

Works with the FFXI system please.

How does a static number of 478 attack without account for defense = 13.8% inceased damage output?

(1.138x)/z=(x+66)/z

((1.138x)*z)/z=x+66

1.138x=x+66

0.138x=66

x=66/0.138

x=478.26

Level correction coefficient cancels as well.

This really hasn't been said enough: you're an idiot.

[Nightfyre]

Actually let me just make it easy for you. If a mob has 1 million defense and you hit for 0 and you get 66 attack ontop of lets just say 500 attack and you still hit for 0 then... your damage increase isn't 13.8%.

Find me a mob where you always hit for 0 at normal levels of attack. Also, I already covered that.

[AoshiZ]

lol... Why don't you take it up with Failure then, seeing as they wrote that article?

And no, I can do my own math on the subject... No real reason to when it's already been done though.

EDIT: Beaten, but it was worth repeating.

Its important to keep an analytical mind and not except lots of numbers as "Mathmatical Proofs."

Given the circumstances and your refusal to mathmatically approach my response and the fact that you've directed me to argue mathmatics with someone else you've pretty much acknowledged that you have no right to make valid statements on the subject.

[AoshiZ]

Find me a mob where you always hit for 0 at normal levels of attack. Also, I already covered that.

hit JOL with no attack food on thf. you'll hit for 0

[Therin]

To be fair, Failure does play FFXI in debug mode. I'd pretty much trust everything he says, honestly.