Jobs: hard to decide

[S N K]

I wasn't aware that I had a Power Attack whatchama call it. Whatever I post on FFXIAH is for when people ask for gear sets. I clearly do not list everything on there just the fact that I do have a full time job and a career to consider than sit around on welfare all day.

Wow..........

[Yugl]

You people are speaking as if the job with the most macros is going to win the race.. That's just silly. If one person has two-hundred very specific macros for their job, and another has two-hundred and ten, does that mean that the latter is leaps and bounds ahead of the former in terms of complexity? No, of course not. You could(and we all know that plenty do) play blue mage with very, very few major equipment swaps, just like every other job. Just because yours has the capacity to make use of a handful more doesn't mean its some sort of rubix cube. All jobs can be played simply, and all jobs can be played more aggressively.

And before anyone screams "bias!", this is my first legitimate melee class after a long, long line of mages, and I have to pay just as much attention on samurai as I did on any caster-job.

Edit in regard to Ronin: Are you really going to argue a job's difficulty based on the performance of a complete moron? I don't see how that's even remotely relevant.

The only one who even mentions complexity as a determining factor is Yvonne, and she/he mentioned it as an incentive to play something that utilizes multiple gear sets.

That's just dumb. Jobs are as complex as you make them.

You then said that BLU(Complexity)>SAM(Complexity) is BS because classes can be as complex as the owner wishes to make them. However, even with that considered, BLU dominates SAM as far as gear sets is concerned. Only a fool would go so far as to suggest that SAM can utilize more gear sets than BLU. Even if you take minor sets such as a SAM SS set (Which BLU can do as well), BLU will come ahead by leaps and bounds simply because we have access to spells beyond the sub level and thus, find diversity in the gear sets these spells require. Even if we take this to a realistic notch, BLU should have almost all the sets SAM has minus the weapon change set and even then, our spells make up for that.

As far as the number of maximum and minimum sets for each class, BLU is superior. It's futile to argue otherwise.

Edit: I cannot believe you're (FM) arguing about necessity of sets on BG. It's almost hypocritical to argue for maximum utility for SAM in almost every other thread then come here and say BLU can tone it down.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I feel like you quoted me, yet didn't actually read anything I wrote.

[FailureMidgard]

I wasn't aware that I had a Power Attack whatchama call it. Whatever I post on FFXIAH is for when people ask for gear sets. I clearly do not list everything on there just the fact that I do have a full time job and a career to consider than sit around on welfare all day.

You mentioned 100+ spells to choose from, I picked one for you. Guess you didn't even know it existed. Good thing it still adds to the complexity of blu for your argument.

The only one who even mentions complexity as a determining factor is Yvonne, and she/he mentioned it as an incentive to play something that utilizes multiple gear sets.

You then said that BLU(Complexity)>SAM(Complexity) is BS because classes can be as complex as the owner wishes to make them. However, even with that considered, BLU dominates SAM as far as gear sets is concerned. Only a fool would go so far as to suggest that SAM can utilize more gear sets than BLU. Even if you take minute sets such as a SAM SS set (Which BLU can do as well), BLU will come ahead by leaps and bounds simply because we have access to spells beyond the sub level and thus, find diversity in the gear sets these spells require. Even if we take this to a realistic notch, BLU should have almost all the sets SAM has minus the weapon change set and even then, our spells make up for that.

As far as the number of maximum and minimum sets for each class, BLU is superior. It's futile to argue otherwise.

I'm confused, do you consider Disseverment and Frenetic Rip to be different gear sets? Because I don't.
Dimensional Death and Death Scissors?
Cannonball and Vertical Cleave are pretty much the same, a few more options for Cannonball, but mostly the same.
All the breaths are the same basically?
Do I need to go figure out what every useless piece of shit blu spell shares with so I can show you that different spell != different sets always? And changing 1 piece is hardly "complicated". That's like saying that changing gorget in a WS is some huge added complexity.

Edit: I cannot believe you're (FM) arguing about necessity of sets on BG. It's almost hypocritical to argue for maximum utility for SAM in almost every other thread then come here and say BLU can tone it down.

Huh? I'm saying you don't need a set for all 100 spells. How is that the least bit hypocritical. I don't have a fucking spirits within set for Sam. You shouldn't have a Power Attack (and 60+ other spells) set for BLU. I also don't have a paralyzed set for sam, I don't have a firesday set, nor a lightningday set. Point is, people are sitting here and talking about "100+ spells" when they don't even know what half of them do because they are USELESS.

[ronin sparthos]

Fuck dude, on Sam I have to decide between like 100 Gkatanas, another 50 polearms, Ridill, Seiryu's Sword, Shigeto Bow+1, Lightning Bow+1, a warp cudgel, 100 other daggers and clubs. All you have to do is put on ANY SWORD and then go pick from 100 spells.

Stop over-complicating bullshit that isn't complicated. You don't choose between 100 spells because most of them suck donkey balls. You put on a fucking sword (which one is far less consequential than which weapon a Sam equips) and go spam 1 of ~6 spells and shit falls over. You don't even need to gearswap to solo an imp -with ease-. Put on your disseverment set and rotate disseverment, headbutt, frenetic rip and hysteric barrage all in 1 set of gear. That's basically the analogy you're making for sam.

Also, BLU needs less support. You need 1 rdm (if that?) to perform ok. A melee -needs- haste and marches to make it worth bringing.

Bad Sams are bad, bad blus are bad. Don't act like some shitty Sam that comes out having no idea what he's doing spamming 350 point gekkos is doing good damage or the least bit useful, because he isn't.

By your logic, why the fuck isnt everyone inviting BLU over SAM in the LFP pool? Just grab any old sword and you'll be spamming the big 3 infinitely to the top of the parsers!

Experience has shown that inviting a BLU is far riskier than picking a SAM because even if the SAM sucks they wont be resting MP, wearing MP rings and missing every damned spell because they have no fucking accuracy gear. If your theoretical SAM is doing 350 point Gekkos, where do you think my theoretical BLU is? Ah right, doing 95 Vorpals and wishing he could be doing as well as Chomper the wyvern.

My point is that a bargain bin SAM is going to come out better than a bargain bin BLU in any EXP situation because the job is innately easier to pick up and play. Why do you think SAM is the current bandwagon infatuation?

In an HNM situation this gap becomes even bigger as SAM has the advantage of Tachi: Gekko whereas a BLU needs to either gear for Cannonball or completely rethink the way the job is played for that event. Theoretical SAM will be doing bad and theoretical BLU should drop and let the BST (as generic as generic gets) do more DPS because that's how bad BLU gets when played poorly.

You can take SAM and make it fantastically complex and the same goes with BLU however don't act like SAM doesn't have advantages that make it the easier of the two jobs to play. One job is forgiving to mistakes and the other makes your party wish you were offline.

Also, BLU needs less support. You need 1 rdm (if that?) to perform ok. A melee -needs- haste and marches to make it worth bringing.

What? lol. A melee can get by with Haste and be fine. A BLU without some refresh source is going to be resting and the laughingstock of the party. Dont pretend like a melee like SAM needs Marches whereas BLU can get by without. Both benefit and a SAM is going to be better off without any buffs than a BLU, always.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Again with the basing a job's complexity on the performance of someone that I wouldn't trust with a metal fork.

Why are we using people who aren't at all relevant as a basis for comparison?

[Yugl]

I'm confused, do you consider Disseverment and Frenetic Rip to be different gear sets? Because I don't.
Dimensional Death and Death Scissors?
Cannonball and Vertical Cleave are pretty much the same, a few more options for Cannonball, but mostly the same.
All the breaths are the same basically?
Do I need to go figure out what every useless piece of shit blu spell shares with so I can show you that different spell != different sets always? And changing 1 piece is hardly "complicated". That's like saying that changing gorget in a WS is some huge added complexity.

Did you completely miss the point of the list? They're different among each other, not within each other. Disseverment/Frenetic Rip are primarily ACC/STR/Skill related. Pre61 spells do not benefit from Skill. CB utilizes STR/VIT combos. SATA Vertical cleave is a pure STR set (i.e. different from Disseverment which requires ACC and different from CB which requires VIT). Breaths require magic ACC and HP unlike other nukes that demand different stats (MND/INT/CHR). Complicated is in reference to the amount of sets required and gear needed as in the sentence "BLU requires a more complex combination of gear". The most complicated part of FFXI is building strategies that revolve around less members. Other than that, you're in your own world if you believe FFXI is complex.

I and everyone else is well aware of the fact that we don't need 100 spell sets. That's a major exaggeration, but it highlights the fact that unlike most classes which can simply focus on certain sets like MND or Resist, BLU does not necessarily have that option when magic attacks are included because each one is affected by different stats. Here's the list I presented, and it's quite obvious that each does require a different set:


Idle/Running (Movement)
Disseverment/Frenetic (STR/ACC)
TP (Haste/ACC)
WS (STR/More ACC than spells which benefit from ACC merits/Specific items for WS)
Hysterric Barrage (DEX)
Vertical Cleave SATA (Pure STR, no ACC)
Cannonball SATA (STR/VIT)
Firespit (MND/INT)
Eyes on Me (CHR)
Breath Set (HP)
Magic Hammer and Mind Blast (MND)
Regurgitation (INT?)
LV60 and less spells (STR/ACC; skip the skill)
PDT (PDT?!)
Cure set (Enmity/VIT)
MDT (MDT?!)
Utsusemi (Max Haste)
Enmity for enmity spells (Enmity?!)

[FailureMidgard]

By your logic, why the fuck isnt everyone inviting BLU over SAM in the LFP pool? Just grab any old sword and you'll be spamming the big 3 infinitely to the top of the parsers!

Experience has shown that inviting a BLU is far riskier than picking a SAM because even if the SAM sucks they wont be resting MP, wearing MP rings and missing every damned spell because they have no fucking accuracy gear. If your theoretical SAM is doing 350 point Gekkos, where do you think my theoretical BLU is? Ah right, doing 95 Vorpals and wishing he could be doing as well as Chomper the wyvern.

My point is that a bargain bin SAM is going to come out better than a bargain bin BLU in any EXP situation because the job is innately easier to pick up and play. Why do you think SAM is the current bandwagon infatuation?

See, you're missing the fact here that Sam inherently does more damage. Which is why Thorny and everyone else is hating on them in every thread. Let me give you a few made up #s:

Shitty useless Sam does 100 dmg. Shitty useless Blu does 50 dmg.
Top gear/play Sam does 300 dmg. Top gear/play Blu does 120 dmg.
Good sam does 3x shitty sam. Good blu does 2.4x shitty blu.

THE FACT THAT A SHITTY SAM DOES MORE THAN A SHITTY BLU DOES NOT MAKE BLU MORE COMPLICATED. Got that? This right here is why Blus don't get invited. Because the job is weaker, NOT because it's more complicated and people can't handle it.

You can take SAM and make it fantastically complex and the same goes with BLU however don't act like SAM doesn't have advantages that make it the easier of the two jobs to play. One job is forgiving to mistakes and the other makes your party wish you were offline.

No, see, you strike me as a player that doesn't parse. When I went in a merit party (before Amano) with randoms and I do 4x+ what another Sam is doing, it's sad and pathetic. It's not forgiving for mistakes at all - you just have to parse to actually see how bad all these mistakes are.

What? lol. A melee can get by with Haste and be fine. A BLU without some refresh source is going to be resting and the laughingstock of the party. Dont pretend like a melee like SAM needs Marches whereas BLU can get by without. Both benefit and a SAM is going to be better off without any buffs than a BLU, always.

I'm sorry, but this is wrong, in all cases. Just to quickly give you some fast math. Assuming 17% haste on gear (very low easy to get), 2x march adds:

1/.78 ~> 1/.58 = 1.282 ~> 1.724 = 35% increase to damage done. It's a larger increase if the sam has better gear or is able to use Hasso or is /drg.

Give me some fucking math how you get a 35% increase to your damage on Blu from a bard. Melee NEEDS marches and haste to be useful. This right here basically nullifies any argument you're making due to the perspective you're arguing from.

[Vyvian]

To the OP.

Figure out what job you love to play, and love playing the events you find yourself doing, and even if it isn't the most popular job, like SAM, you will still love playing it. Get the gear you may be missing, and show everyone why you think that job is the best. A player who loves their job, and takes the time to learn every facet of how it works beyond the standard knowledge, will outperform someone who is a well geared insert X job here, but plays it more as their hobby to get a break from whatever their real main is.

For me that was MNK, I went and got all the gear, even spent 2 years of Spharai, and now, the only person who consistently can exceed my damage is the Amano SAM, that felt the same way about SAM that I do about MNK. If that person isn't around, it isn't unusual for me to exceed everyone else's damage by 25-40%.

It isn't usually about winning when I play, its about enjoying doing the absolute best I can do, push as hard as I can push the limit, you eventually know how much your support can heal, you know what you will survive and what you will not. Sometimes its something like giving up Counterstance for a minute in Dynamis, so that Ranger won't kill you with EES. In my case I'll survive EES with Berserk active if I take CS off. It allows me to get in more damage than if I just faced away for the first 50% and let someone else eat it.

[FailureMidgard]

Did you completely miss the point of the list? They're different among each other, not within each other. Disseverment/Frenetic Rip are primarily ACC/STR/Skill related. Pre61 spells do not benefit from Skill. CB utilizes STR/VIT combos. SATA Vertical cleave is a pure STR set (i.e. different from Disseverment which requires ACC and different from CB which requires VIT). Breaths require magic ACC and HP unlike other nukes that demand different stats (MND/INT/CHR). Complicated is in reference to the amount of sets required and gear needed as in the sentence "BLU requires a more complex combination of gear". The most complicated part of FFXI is building strategies that revolve around less members. Other than that, you're in your own world if you believe FFXI is complex.

I and everyone else is well aware of the fact that we don't need 100 spell sets. That's a major exaggeration, but it highlights the fact that unlike most classes which can simply focus on certain sets like MND or Resist, BLU does not necessarily have that option when magic attacks are included because each one is affected by different stats. Here's the list I presented, and it's quite obvious that each does require a different set:


Idle/Running (Movement)
Disseverment/Frenetic (STR/ACC)
TP (Haste/ACC)
WS (STR/More ACC than spells which benefit from ACC merits/Specific items for WS)
Hysterric Barrage (DEX)
Vertical Cleave SATA (Pure STR, no ACC)
Cannonball SATA (STR/VIT)
Firespit (MND/INT)
Eyes on Me (CHR)
Breath Set (HP)
Magic Hammer and Mind Blast (MND)
Regurgitation (INT?)
LV60 and less spells (STR/ACC; skip the skill)
PDT (PDT?!)
Cure set (Enmity/VIT)
MDT (MDT?!)
Utsusemi (Max Haste)
Enmity for enmity spells (Enmity?!)

Only 1 TP set? Don't have varying TP sets for different subjobs? Don't have jump sets for blu/drg? Only 1 WS set really? I have at least 2 WS sets for every WS, more for some. AFAIK Cream Soda has like 8 Asuran sets (I'm not that crazy). Don't use different sets with different buffs or different food?

I'm not trying to say that Blu is less complicated than Sam. I'm saying what Tsuko is saying - neither has inherent complexity, you add complexity based on how well you want to perform. You have at most 11 spell sets it looks like there. A lot of those you probably don't even use, and most BLUs don't have a setup for. On the other hand, most Sams use the same WS set for Y/G/K, whereas the better ones realize Y/K require more attack to cap than Gekko. Not to mention different targets require different attack values to begin with.

Also, on the subject of "complicated", how often do BLUs react and choose a spell based on what spell someone else used? Never? Because that's one of the most dynamic parts of Sam. While sitting there and setting up/saving TP for a SC is bad, it's basically always worth it to close a skillchain and switch to Y/K. It's often even worth it to "waste" a swing to close a skillchain, if necessary.

And I agree with Tsuko also, relating number of gearsets to complexity is a bit silly, outside of the fact I don't even think it's true.

[Yvonne]

It's odd when Steve Jobs announces 50,000 possible apps on an iPhone, ok, that's a nice selling point or little fun facts for an infographic. Does an angry blogger go out of their way to disprove all these apps? That not every app was created with the same production value as another? Maybe, maybe not, depends how much traffic he wants on his blog. Socially as Americans, we know we only use a handful of apps and the other are just jokes. Same as going to a grocery store and seeing 29 different varieties of chicken soup. Does this mean all 29 cans are equally great? No. Common sense.

However, when a person does the same thing saying BLU has over 100 spells as a selling point, people take it out of context or go out of their fucking way to troll/disprove it's not possible/practical. It just takes one person to to go out of their way to either extremes.

When I said 100+ spells, did I mean all of em were just equally valued like 50,000+ apps on the iPhone/iPad? Probably not, use fucking common sense. Get a fucking job and learn to socialize.

[orson]

I'm pretty sure people have been using the excuse it's more complex to usually describe jobs most people just don't play. FFXI doesn't really have complex mechanics for anyone who's out of high school or hell someone who's started high school. If complexity was the reason no one played a job then there would be no Schs, Whms, Rdms, and/or Blms according to your theories. Surprisingly though I know lots of melees that have mage jobs leveled and are fine at having haste/stoneskin/cure/MAB/macc/etc. set. By your logic though you're saying that no one likes Blu because it's complicated to play I have to call BS on this.

[Yugl]

Only 1 TP set? Don't have varying TP sets for different subjobs? Don't have jump sets for blu/drg? Only 1 WS set really? I have at least 2 WS sets for every WS, more for some. AFAIK Cream Soda has like 8 Asuran sets (I'm not that crazy). Don't use different sets with different buffs or different food?

The list was intentionally cut down for such intents. Add more if you want -- it only proves my point.

I'm not trying to say that Blu is less complicated than Sam. I'm saying what Tsuko is saying - neither has inherent complexity, you add complexity based on how well you want to perform. You have at most 11 spell sets it looks like there. A lot of those you probably don't even use, and most BLUs don't have a setup for. On the other hand, most Sams use the same WS set for Y/G/K, whereas the better ones realize Y/K require more attack to cap than Gekko. Not to mention different targets require different attack values to begin with.

Also, on the subject of "complicated", how often do BLUs react and choose a spell based on what spell someone else used? Never? Because that's one of the most dynamic parts of Sam. While sitting there and setting up/saving TP for a SC is bad, it's basically always worth it to close a skillchain and switch to Y/K. It's often even worth it to "waste" a swing to close a skillchain, if necessary.

And I agree with Tsuko also, relating number of gearsets to complexity is a bit silly, outside of the fact I don't even think it's true.

Did you not read a thing you quoted? Here, I'll bold it for you:

Complicated is in reference to the amount of sets required and gear needed as in the sentence "BLU requires a more complex combination of gear". The most complicated part of FFXI is building strategies that revolve around less members. Other than that, you're in your own world if you believe FFXI is complex.

What I and others are trying to relay is that the gear sets are more complex (i.e. more dynamic). Nothing beyond the strategies of this game is complicated. Even the strategies can only go so far in terms of complexity when there are few people. The fact that you're even making a "reaction" post as a form of complexity is ridiculous. News flash: BLU can do that as well. The other half of that is it isn't complicated to begin with.

[Sho]

Even simply being told to "stun" all incoming TP moves a mob does can easily separate a veteran BLU from a scrub. There's more than 1 stun option for BLU, which people generalize it's only just Head Butt. Sometimes, even a BLU that opts for Flat Blade over Vorpal can save lives.

Post made my day. Simply because I'm that kind veteran BLU that will use Vorpal Blade/Frypan in conjuction with Head Butt to save lives, rather than trying to deal the highest damaging Vorpal Blade/YYY spell possible on XXX mob.

[Nightmarelord]

In short. do what makes you happy. what job you like the most on the steadily dying lolXI.
each job with a relic or mythic will more then likely make you still feel the same "accomplished" at the end of the day. (excluding blm bc most of ur game is spent trying to get up!) lol im kidding..

[FailureMidgard]

It's odd when Steve Jobs announces 50,000 possible apps on an iPhone, ok, that's a nice selling point or little fun facts for an infographic. Does an angry blogger go out of their way to disprove all these apps? That not every app was created with the same production value as another? Maybe, maybe not, depends how much traffic he wants on his blog. Socially as Americans, we know we only use a handful of apps and the other are just jokes. Same as going to a grocery store and seeing 29 different varies of chicken soup. Does this mean all 29 cans are equally great? No. Common sense.

However, when a person does the same thing saying BLU has over 100 spells as a selling point, people take it out of context or go out of their fucking way to troll/disprove it's not possible/practical. It just takes one person to to go out of their way to either extremes.

When I said 100+ spells, did I mean all of em were just equally valued like 50,000+ apps on the iPhone/iPad? Probably not, use fucking common sense. Get a fucking job and learn to socialize.

If you're going to use a RL analogy, at least try to chose one that's applicable. Apps, that can do any number of things for various people with entirely different goals is in no way related to blu spells that do damage and damage alone. In one scenario, there is a clear cut mathematical best, in the other there isn't. Before you get too happy here with pointing out that you have utility abilities like Sheep Song and Temporal Shift, realize these are NOT the spells I'm saying you should exclude. They have a use. On the other hand, the spell that does just damage, in an inferior manner to every other option should be excluded. And it's not just that -YOU- don't use it. It's that nobody uses it (except low level BLUs with nothing else). It's like calling Fire1 and Fire4 unique spells for a black mage. Well, that's not even a good analogy as Fire1 is far more useful than Power Attack.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Sorry, but what you're saying here is exactly what gives statistics it's bad name. You're using numbers to twist, distort, and hide the truth. It may be true, but it's in no way shape or form relevant. But you know this, so why bother fucking saying it in this discussion? Oh well, brb learning to socialize...that means make personal attacks on internet forums right? Since you're the expert at it and that's what you're doing?

[jimbobsonofgod]

This game is about getting gear for the job you love to play
while playing the job/jobs you hate.

[Sho]

Fuck dude, on Sam I have to decide between like 100 Gkatanas, another 50 polearms, Ridill, Seiryu's Sword, Shigeto Bow+1, Lightning Bow+1, a warp cudgel, 100 other daggers and clubs. All you have to do is put on ANY SWORD and then go pick from 100 spells.

Translation: Hagun, Tomoe, Warp Cudgel, Armors.

A exceptional/great/good BLU actually has set ups for spells/TP/WS/enfeebling used at all times, swapping in other set ups as needed. SAM usually have a TP/WS set, unless they are specifically doing something else like physical/magical DT tanking otherwise. No one is using SAM/RNG for anything outside of relic these days... come on, lol.

I do believe people on BG forget that the normal player will always play on the far far lower end of the spectrum from casual to hardcore. Knowing this, they simply won't have the great range of gear that SAM can employ and the FAR greater range of gear that BLU can employ.

Considering gear and job mechanics, SAM is simply easier to play than BLU by any stretch of the imagination.

P.S.: I do agree that BLU is simply a weaker job to play vs SAM at merit camps, but that's a straw man argument that takes away from the fact that BLU is still more complex than SAM.

[Yvonne]

A personal attack would be reporting to a social worker about misuse of the welfare system having children for the sake of welfare, but I'm obviously above that.

There's also a thing about level syncs, capped zones, bcnm/etc where even lower tier spells are viable.

[FailureMidgard]

Translation: Hagun, Tomoe, Warp Cudgel, Armors.

You missed the point. Yea, you're not actually using that many weapons (though, Soboro is worth having as well), but it's the same as the BLU spells. Fact is, you're not using a majority of those spells, yet people are sitting here and making it out to be some complicated decision of which spell to cast.

A exceptional/great/good BLU actually has set ups for spells/TP/WS/enfeebling used at all times, swapping in other set ups as needed. SAM usually have a TP/WS set, unless they are specifically doing something else like physical/magical DT tanking otherwise. No one is using SAM/RNG for anything outside of relic these days... come on, lol.

And yet, Sam/rng is better for zergs than Hagun, by a longshot. "No one is using BLU for anything these days...come on, lol." Let's not get into that argument, ok? I'm not trying to downplay blu here, I'm saying you assume that all a sam does is 1 tp set, 1 ws set, and perhaps a pdt set. Sorry, that's not how it is, at all. Sure, maybe a bad one has that, but a bad blu like I said can use the same set for the big3, spam them, and be as effective as Mr. Sam with 1 tp and 1 ws set (relatively, sam still does more damage, so no, the blu won't keep up, but the ratio with a well geared of their respective class will be similar).

I do believe people on BG forget that the normal player will always play on the far far lower end of the spectrum from casual to hardcore. Knowing this, they simply won't have the great range of gear that SAM can employ and the FAR greater range of gear that BLU can employ.

Considering gear and job mechanics, SAM is simply easier to play than BLU by any stretch of the imagination.

That's only because you haven't parsed and examined the differences that the sam does. Go find a shitty sam and a good one and parse them against each other, then do the same for blu. It isn't going to be different. In b4 eyeballed damage.