Jobs: hard to decide

[Sho]

You missed the point. Yea, you're not actually using that many weapons (though, Soboro is worth having as well), but it's the same as the BLU spells. Fact is, you're not using a majority of those spells, yet people are sitting here and making it out to be some complicated decision of which spell to cast.

Of course, of course, it's all situational. However, grab a group of 20 BLU of different leagues and ask them what gear to use during what situation between physical and magical blue magic. I can promise you 15 of that 20 will only go as far as state a TP set up and a STR/DEX set up. 1~5 of those 15 think that MP+ gear is OK to use in a TP set (it's not).

Not a complicated decision at all. However, BLU is very unforgiving if you aren't geared/merited very well-- you'll be missing hits or hit for very shitty dmg, or enfeebles will resist, etc.

And yet, Sam/rng is better for zergs than Hagun, by a longshot. "No one is using BLU for anything these days...come on, lol." Let's not get into that argument, ok? I'm not trying to downplay blu here, I'm saying you assume that all a sam does is 1 tp set, 1 ws set, and perhaps a pdt set. Sorry, that's not how it is, at all. Sure, maybe a bad one has that, but a bad blu like I said can use the same set for the big3, spam them, and be as effective as Mr. Sam with 1 tp and 1 ws set (relatively, sam still does more damage, so no, the blu won't keep up, but the ratio with a well geared of their respective class will be similar).

We are definitely on different servers and different strategies-- as I've said earlier, my BLU is used before every other job I have (which includes 75SAM that can be decently geared). That doesn't cover from the fact that yes, BLU isn't used as much vs SAM-- SAM is made to deal out raw dmg, hence it's high popularity (people like big numbers, etc). I'll see you on the SAM/RNG, and admit I haven't played SAM in years to realized it's continued usefulness in that manner.

That's only because you haven't parsed and examined the differences that the sam does. Go find a shitty sam and a good one and parse them against each other, then do the same for blu. It isn't going to be different. In b4 eyeballed damage.

I used to parse all the time vs SAM/DRG/MNK, etc alongside my BLU. A shitty SAM will only do so bad as lowend dmg vs a good SAM. A shitty BLU probably won't even land hits on the mob vs a good BLU, which will in turn a good BLU still do usually worse than a shitty SAM. However, BLU still has it's purpose in other events.

P.S.: I no longer believe in parses, seeing as it's all about timing WSes and auto-targeting mobs fast to stay on top.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Person, after person, after person, after person doing the exact same thing

Stop using certifiable retards as a basis for your argument. I should hope you're not one of them, I know I sure as hell don't associate with them in-game, and they sure as hell aren't reading this thread- why do they matter?

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

I repeat:

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

[FailureMidgard]

P.S.: I no longer believe in parses, seeing as it's all about timing WSes and auto-targeting mobs fast to stay on top.

Nothing really to argue vs the rest, but this is kinda of silly. Not in your perception of what causes 1 to win parses, because you are right, but in not believing in parses because of this. This is one of the main factors of what makes someone a good/aggressive DD. It's what makes salvage and such easy, what makes ein easy, etc. If you take the people that parse poorly because they are slow to WS and whatnot, those are exactly the people that don't clear salvage or barely clear in time/etc.

[Corrderio]

I'd go with MNK, SAM, or DRG. They're all pretty solid jobs and used pretty frequent. RNG is fun to, however I doubt you'll see a lot of action.

Also, avoid BLU like the plague unless you want a job that needs a lot of gear.

EDIT: Also Sho, quit being a bitch and get on MSN nao!

[Draylo]

Person, after person, after person, after person doing the exact same thing

Stop using certifiable retards as a basis for your argument. I should hope you're not one of them, I know I sure as hell don't associate with them in-game, and they sure as hell aren't reading this thread- why do they matter?

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

I repeat:

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

Why? It's a valid point. You *need* competent gear sets to make BLU of use on anything noteworthy, whereas SAM doesn't need as much. A gimp blu vs a gimp sam, sam can still perform, blu will be utterly pathetic without specializing his gear set. This alone should be enough to tell you a job is complex when you *need* a specific set to make it work.

The discussion was as to why this job is more complex than most, that is a good enough reason.

[Sho]

Person, after person, after person, after person doing the exact same thing

Stop using certifiable retards as a basis for your argument. I should hope you're not one of them, I know I sure as hell don't associate with them in-game, and they sure as hell aren't reading this thread- why do they matter?

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

I repeat:

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

Damn man, u mad. It's the fact that a few of us on both sides of the argument used those unfortunate gimps and low end people to base his own example. Of course they don't matter, we are all elitist to some extent on BG anyways (with play/gear/hax to back it up) if we post.

Nothing really to argue vs the rest, but this is kinda of silly. Not in your perception of what causes 1 to win parses, because you are right, but in not believing in parses because of this. This is one of the main factors of what makes someone a good/aggressive DD. It's what makes salvage and such easy, what makes ein easy, etc. If you take the people that parse poorly because they are slow to WS and whatnot, those are exactly the people that don't clear salvage or barely clear in time/etc.

Haha, I've never saw it that way. I concede on that argument. Was really disheartening back in the day when kparser and the rest where being developed, people I'd parse with would do odd things or afk mid battle, screwing up the parse. Then those DRG that would Wheeling Thrust the last 1~2% of HP off of a colibri... I guess it could be seen that was as a form of aggression for other events (in-which I know a few people that play this way in meriting and events).

Not that slacker Nightmarelord, though. Slacker.

[Tsuko_Asura]

If its elitist to expect a samurai to know to prioritize haste, 6-hit, accuracy, and and at least a decent Gekko build, then yes, I'm completely elitist.

If its elitist to expect a blue mage to be capable of looking up their relevant spells, getting a general idea of what they should wear during said spells, all while having a halfway decent TP and WS set, then yes, I'm completely elitist.

Quite frankly, if all you people have are examples and situations based on a player that lacks these extraordinarily simple and basic capabilities, then we have nothing further to discuss. I don't play with that brand of idiot, and quite frankly, I don't know why you would either.

/fin

[Onorgul]

Person, after person, after person, after person doing the exact same thing

Stop using certifiable retards as a basis for your argument. I should hope you're not one of them, I know I sure as hell don't associate with them in-game, and they sure as hell aren't reading this thread- why do they matter?

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

I repeat:

For the type of player that has absolutely anything to do with this thread, these concepts are completely irrelevant.

Yeah, I wish. It's been almost five months since I ran Salvage and I can still rattle off the routes, strategies, drops, and any other relevant information after suffering that place over and over again week after week. The reason I eventually quit, however, was that several members of my Salvage group, in spite of having spent as much time or more as me doing the exact same shit week after week, still screwed up constantly. Any attempts to find a replacement were stymied by the fact that any halfway competent player already had a group and player population was plummeting (I'm shocked that Alexander wasn't merged, but that's because the JP population is active while the NA population flees like rats from a sinking garbage barge).

It's really nice to say, "You're all smart, clearly the people you associate with must also be." Not a blighted chance, though. Same as in real life, you deal with what you can get your hands on and people who can just barely manage to write a standard WS macro are sometimes the best you can get, especially when attendance gets spotty and you have to have people shuffle their jobs around. Do you know how many career mages I've met who cannot handle the mind-numbingly easy job of playing a two-handed DD? Not even tanking, because I was doing that, just sit and swing and occasionally throw out a weaponskill.

Either way, it's a No True Scotsman fallacy to claim that just because someone is competent, the people they play with will be. Maybe 5 years ago when the NA population was booming you could try to make that claim (except people would try to bring an alliance or more to even easy fights like Hakutaku), but your own habit of jumping servers every 10 minutes strongly suggests that you have a hard time tracking down the sort of players you assume everyone else can find. Your standards (and BG's in general) are way too high for a game with a flagging population that does little to reward skill and efficiency. SE has never found that sweet spot where a fight is difficult enough to demand skill but not so difficult as to be impossible or nearly so, so the population as a whole mires in stagnant tedium while you try to argue for mathematical perfection.

I'll bet the truth is that a lot of people you play with are actually pretty lukewarm. You just like them and accept their "I'm too drunk to play right" excuses. Scraping the bottom of the barrel for the worst player as an example definitely makes for a shaky argument, but the majority of players either parrot with no understanding what the top 1% have said or deliberately disregard any such advice. The best you can hope to do is cajole the former group into doing what you know will work.

[Draylo]

Big emo post.

If you don't like your server I suggest you change?

[Cadsuane]

If you don't like your server I suggest you change?

This post was bad and you should feel bad for making it.

[Sho]

If you don't like your server I suggest you change?

It was actually more informative than emo, lol. Tsuko could easily counter the entire argument with "merit with people you know, i.e. your friends and LS mates," however. Dude makes a point though, and it only goes to show that FFXI is on the decline.

Discussing that point you made is futile, Tsuko. I used "gimps" to prove the point I made while you made a strawman argument circle. I use "elitist" here, because we both know we are amongst many players that somewhat know what they are doing (usually)... and at least are better geared than the norm at w/e they do.

Nothing wrong with expecting the best from people, but we no longer exist in that awesome FFXI of 2005~2007; the lowbies and lesser geared players are prevalent these days. Unless if you're in a PT of LS mates and friends, in which you can wreck shit all day and laugh at others.

You do you, and I'ma do me, I guess.

[Atoreis]

Well thx for all answers.
I decided on 8 polearm 8 2h 4 sword for DRG MNK BLU SAM
I will try for Spharai.
If I will feel like low mp is hurting me too much I will pass on blu.
If I will feel like I wont use a lot polearm on SAM i will pass on it for 8 sword.
If both will happen well maybe I will try RNG or just go 8 gkt. I hope it wont happen tho

[Nightmarelord]

<3 u sho! u dirty hoe.

[S N K]

Get a fucking job and learn to socialize.

Twice in a row..... Just wow....

A personal attack would be reporting to a social worker about misuse of the welfare system having children for the sake of welfare, but I'm obviously above that.

If you were above it, You wouldn't have pulled this pointless card out of nowhere. While I also have a career and work way too much as I'd like, Making a comment like this is just pointless. Nobody was even talking about people's living conditions and all of a sudden you're bringing out the Walfare card?

[Fridell]

This game is about getting gear for the job you love to play
while playing the job/jobs you hate.

Haha this is great, I agree.

[Tomino]

One thing I'd like to add to the discussion:
Everyone picks up a job and starts to gear it up, with common, rare and impossibly rare drops. Gils are spent on equipment and improvements and such.

Then there is that one moment that has the potential to absolutely "destroy" the feeling toward said job.
It's that crucial moment, that hard BC or HNM which is no forviging at all, that over the top endgame content.... and you feel you're one step behind. Your job simply... doesn't reach that damn top.

Think of the new Shadowlord BCNM. Think about your jobs and realize which one you'd proudly, fearlessy take to battle in the full knowledge that it'd hold its ground and shine in its proper role. That it'd put its weigh and probably feel almost necessary to achieve victory.
That's your job :D

[jimbobsonofgod]

Think of the new Shadowlord BCNM. Think about your jobs and realize which one you'd proudly, fearlessy take to battle in the full knowledge that it'd hold its ground and shine in its proper role.

I know which one I'd play.

Then I'd have to look at the odds.

There is 1 job I'd play, there are 12 jobs I have available

So there is an 8.3% chance I'd get to play that job

[noodles355]

Do you like me too?

Not really, BLU has far more complexity than a lot of other jobs. You need specific sets of gear to work the various aspects of BLU. Compared that to other jobs that only need like 3 to function normally, WS TP and perhaps idle.

Wtf are you talking about, My drg has like 11 sets and my thf has 16.

[jimbobsonofgod]

my thf has 16.

I count 2 sets for thf

1)Main TK + hands A.Armlets
2)Sub TK + hands A.Armlets

[homerun]

Blu isn't a good job because virtually anything blu can do can be done much better by another job. In a bubble Blu is an allright job, but why settle for the 4th or 5th best option if you had a choice?

I wasn't aware that I had a Power Attack whatchama call it. Whatever I post on FFXIAH is for when people ask for gear sets. I clearly do not list everything on there just the fact that I do have a full time job and a career to consider than sit around on welfare all day.

Ahahahah Classy. I think you are convincing everyone about the effectiveness of blue mage!!