Why don't you recycle?

[Corrderio]

I recycle paper, plastic, cans, and glass. My parents burn cardboard since no place here recycles it.

[Cleverness]

I dont recycle cause

A) Garbage chute is closer and
B) If I did want to recycle, I have to walk outside to the recycle chute and THAT is always filled with normal garbage cause hood niggas are fucking stupid. So it is impossible for me to recycle without accumulating trash, and I refuse to do that in my tiny projects apartment.

[Vail]

also watch penn&tellers episode about recycling

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...1672891013193#

[Shalyn]

Just put them in with the paper. It isn't as if the magnets won't find them if they're loose.

I was told not to when I emailed the recycling department, they said they get lost in the move or something similar, and they said to just put them in the garbage. I don't like putting a bunch of metal in the garbage to sit in a landfill, so I've been looking around at paper-recycling plants that separate the paper and staples and recycle them. I just thought someone had an easier, or more charitable, idea.

[Benevolentone]

Idk if it is late and the the thread has already de railed into oblivion but I tend to recycle most anything because now in Cincinnati we take pretty much any kind of plastic/paper/glass and metal. Due to a co-worker at my job we have started to recycle pretty much 75% of the normal trash that we personally would just throw away, but we can't make our customers recycle since that is a lost cause, but we are beginning to be a little more eco-friendly I would hope.

I do have a question though. Has the method of recycling been improved over the last 5-8 years? Because I remember at one time that it was far more energy efficient, and as a by product more air pollution friendly, to just throw away everything.

[#686578]

I do have a question though. Has the method of recycling been improved over the last 5-8 years? Because I remember at one time that it was far more energy efficient, and as a by product more air pollution friendly, to just throw away everything.

That's the premise I'm currently subscribed to. The studies that I've seen that say recycling are more beneficial never took into account man power, transportation pollution, or other contributing factors that skewed their results.

[Benevolentone]

I would be interested to know how many jobs recycling creates though, because honestly I think the faster we burn off all this oil and fossil fuels the better. Then at least we would be forced to find a more efficient and replenishable fuel source that would solve all our issues of pollution and waste.

[#686578]

I would be interested to know how many jobs recycling creates though, because honestly I think the faster we burn off all this oil and fossil fuels the better. Then at least we would be forced to find a more efficient and replenishable fuel source that would solve all our issues of pollution and waste.

http://www.recycling-revolution.com/...-benefits.html

Recycling creates 1.1 million U.S. jobs, $236 billion in gross annual sales and $37 billion in annual payrolls.

I dont see the connection between jobs recycling crates and burning fossil fuels faster (other than that recycling is technically less efficient) though. I dont see the practical benefit in wasting fuels faster, you'll just end up with the same amount of pollution and waste in a shorter amount of time where you could've used the extra time towards more innovation and solutions.

And if you're going to link recycling and fuel sources it'll be a fun discussion on methane and other bacterial based alternative fuel sources.









Ideally, the place we want to be is that recycling is as efficient as humanly possible, we do it more so that we dont have to keep harvesting as many primary materials, and whatever isnt recyclable is put into landfills where the byproducts are harvested into energy and fertilizer.

[Darus Grey]

Ok guys, time for the inside scoop.

A couple people mentioned it, subsidies, scam, etc.

Well, they're all right.

Recycling is a scam



It doesn't exactly come up often, most people know I work in education, but I've also mentioned I operate my family business.

A waste disposal and recycling brokerage/center. My very first degree being in metallurgical engineering.

We focus primarily on metals, for reasons soon to be explained.

Because metal is the only thing worth recycling

This is true from both an economical standpoint, and a energy efficient/environmental one.Mining is by far the most ecologically destructive thing we engage in, mining is also expensive, the value of the metal extruded from ore is significantly more expensive than recycled metal, especially aluminum!

Infact, for some metals like aluminum, copper, and especially iron, we have enough extruded supplies to be able to continue to function as a society without mining any new material...at least in theory.

So why do we keep mining?

This is the crucial part, because this is the dirty secret of the recycling industry.

Recycling material reduces the absolute structural quality below it's current grade

The highest grade of copper is barebrite, this is what is used in electrical wiring, it is 99.3% pure and is created through electrolysis, which makes it very expensive.

When you smelt copper you add about 3% impurity every time and thus that copper is no longer suitable for it's original purpose, the only way to get it back to 99.3% is through electrolysis. It is cheaper to do this to NEW ore than recycled material Thus you have a cycle where a pure material, is stuck in a cycle where it continually becomes shitter with each pass through the system.

What about the others?

The same thing holds true with plastics, glass, and paper. Ever wonder why when you see a soda-bottle it typically only says made of 10-50% recycled material? If they actually cared they'd just use 100% right?

No, cause then the bottle would not have enough structural integrity to fufill it's purpose without requiring even MORE material resulting in a net increase in waste.

The current increase is nothing but marketing feel good tactics.

Plastic is especially bad, ignoring that it is incredibly toxic to smelt plastic, it takes only 1-2 cycles before the plastic is turned into worthless grade material, literally useless as anything but filler.

Paper...why even bother? Last I checked paper was a renewable resource, there is absolutely no practical reason to recycle it, it biodegrades fast.

Glass is by far the worst offender.

Why the fuck do we recycle GLASS?.

It's cheaper to make than even plastic, recycled glass costs literally hundreds of times more than new glass...the only reason we use plastic bottles at all is because of the shipping expense of the extra weight.

Did I mention it's one of the most abundant fucking resources on the entire planet? We have enough Silica to literally pave the entire planet in a 1mile thick protective layer of glass. We cannot possibly run out of it without sending it into fucking space where it is truly gone forever.

The fact that we waste any amount of energy recycling it is beyond wasteful, just let it rest, plate tectonics will eventually take care of it.

And yet we keep doing it...

Paper, Glass, and Plastic recycling are completely unsustainable without nearly 100% government subsidies.

At my business, when we still did it, it would cost us literally $390/ton to process corregated cardboard.

The finished product sold for $5/ton, and is *still* more expensive than new material, despite being shittier.

The entire process is nothing but a grinder of taking shit material and making it worse, to be sold at 1/50th-1/100th of it's actual cost to produce.

Who pays for it? you do. All that wasted money for practically no effective impact on the environment, because we still have to constantly churn out NEW material because we can't use the old stuff for it's original task after recycling.

This goes back to a distant question, why do we deal only in metals now?
Because me and my father after a lot of discussion, decided it was unethical to keep accepting money to recycle paper/glass/plastic, the payout wasn't *that* great, and at the end of the day we felt miserable knowing we were scamming all our fellow citizens.



Want to know the real secret to stop plastic building up in landfillls?

Spoiler: show

STOP USING IT

[#686578]

The above seems to be a direct quote of a transcription of the summary provided in the Penn & Teller Bullshit! Recycling episode for anyone interested. The words are heavy, and they do seem to go out of their way to be offensive, but don't flat out ignore the message.

[Benevolentone]

Well in my mind as long as oil/coal/etc. still exist and are profitable no real headway will be made to create new forms of energy. I am not sure who out there would dump money into R&D to make something that may in the end be less profitable than just exploiting the existing materials that we have. In the end we as people seem to only come through and make needed changes only when we have no other options, so any way of helping that would be good to me.

Also I wasn't trying to make a connection between the two it was just poor wording that made it seem like that I suppose.

[Darus Grey]

I think I'm offended(lol@being offended).

I never seen that Penn & Teller episode, so the fact that my experience in the industry reads like "a direct quote of a transcription" should tell you something. Man, I spent like 30min writing that essay.

[Benevolentone]

Your "essay" was more or less what I was looking for when I asked about if it was less productive to recycle then to just toss it all. Is paper that bad though? It always seemed like something that was so easily recyclable to me, even if it is a renewable resource. Is there maybe a better way to recycle? Maybe more of a reuse policy rather than a destroy and recreate kinda deal we have going now? I am sure it is impractical and expensive but its more hypothetical than anything.

[#686578]

Well in my mind as long as oil/coal/etc. still exist and are profitable no real headway will be made to create new forms of energy. I am not sure who out there would dump money into R&D to make something that may in the end be less profitable than just exploiting the existing materials that we have. In the end we as people seem to only come through and make needed changes only when we have no other options, so any way of helping that would be good to me.

We never ran out of coal or wood yet we still turned to oil throughout the industrial revolution. Businesses are dumping massive amounts of money into R&D. Every business that is in that market wants to be able to say that they are the Microsoft of fuel sources. The first corporation, business, or individual that creates a worthwhile massively successful alternative fuel will be rich. It would be the second coming of Oil Sheiks.

Look into algae fuel if you have the spare time.

[Darus Grey]

Your "essay" was more or less what I was looking for when I asked about if it was less productive to recycle then to just toss it all. Is paper that bad though? It always seemed like something that was so easily recyclable to me, even if it is a renewable resource. Is there maybe a better way to recycle? Maybe more of a reuse policy rather than a destroy and recreate kinda deal we have going now? I am sure it is impractical and expensive but its more hypothetical than anything.

Yes, paper really is that bad. Plastic and Glass no better.

If the government didn't subsidize nearly 100% of recycling of those materials there would be absolutely no economical way to do it.

Metal is mostly unsubsidized and entirely sustainable economically, material degradation still happens with each cycle, but that's entirely an energy issue, if energy became more abundant/cheaper, we could recycle metal back into pure qualities economically.

The same isn't true for the others, you can never restore plastic for instance to it's original quality, it simply degrades each time until it becomes useless and ends up in a landfill anyways.

Glass can be recycled to near original quality...but again...WHY?

[#686578]

Is paper that bad though?

Paper has to be collected, sorted, shredded, washed, formed, flattened, and bleached.

[Benevolentone]

Look into algae fuel if you have the spare time.

Algae fuel you say? I shall check it out at some point then. Put it on my growing list of things to read up about. I won't lie, when it comes to trees/recycling/energy and whatnot, I literally know almost nothing and I just do what seems right from what other people tell me or what little I have actually read up. I am most likely ignorant to what is happening in the world and most of my information is based off old ass stuff I was told by my dad and family so all of this stuff is enlightening to me. Although I always knew recycling was a horrible money and energy sink, it is nice to have at least some confirmation.

[Darus Grey]

Paper has to be collected, sorted, shredded, washed, formed, flattened, and bleached.

Produced--> Consumed--> Discarded -> collected -> sorted -> shredded -> baled -> shipped -> shredded -> baled -> shipped ->shredded -> washed -> formed -> flattened -> colored.

Is more accurate, recycled material is typically reprocessed 2-4 times from the initial recyclers before it makes it back to a "material" level product. Because the companies using it demand bale sizes that require 200million dollar balers to make, and the people with them require their own bale sizes...

So the material is re-worked several times up the chain until it's the appropriate size to be ripped apart again and made into something.

It sounds retarded because it is.

[archibaldcrane]

Somewhat related note:

I don't litter, ever.

But.

I get flyers and shit on my car (usually in spanish about auto insurance) at least once every two days in my neighborhood. Under the windshield wiper, in the doorjamb, wherever.

I drop them in the street and drive away. My reasoning is that those papers do not become my responsibility just because they are sitting on the outside of my car, and that the person who put them there in the first place is the one putting garbage outdoors.

However, I'm not completely comfortable with this strategy. I used to just crumple shit up and throw it in my backseat until I cleaned out my car again, but that was when I'd get a flyer once every two weeks. In this new neighborhood it's constant, and I finally said fuck it.

[Benevolentone]

I never litter. I can't begin to stand it. I actually clean up my street whenever I see that shit out there. It bugs me too much that someone is purposely throwing garbage out onto the ground when it is just as easy to leave it in your car until you get out and put it in a fucking can. Littering is the one thing that if you do it near me I can't respect you. Shit is just as bad as being a sexist/racist to me. Can't stand it.