Confused about bazaar "Tax"

[joxerthemighty]

5% of your income from sales are taken as tax...NOT THAT HARD TO GRASP.

a tax is a fee, but a fee is not always a tax.
the thing that makes a tax a tax is that it is taken by a government, and not a company/individual.

[Oulanbator]

You are trying to bring real life rules to this. Don't.
It's a game. And like it or not, some people love playing the market, that's their end game. They look for cheap items, hoard them, then sell them for profit, and this is what they want for their monthly fee. Hell, EVE Online is basically run by people like this.
I'm not saying "do the same or GTFO", I'm explaining why they do it. It's not because they are wanna-be mafia gangstas, or because they want to grief you personally, it's because doing this is fun for them. And really, it doesn't hurt anyone in the long run (sure, some people might be a bit butthurt for price hiking but hey, this is an MMO we are talking about) so why would you want to deny their playstyle?

Well, if their playstyle is to hurt other players, then I don't see how it can be praiseworthy.

Take football (real football, not american football): it's a game.
If one of the players likes to spam tackles in the ankles or shouldering other team's players because it's his way to have fun, the guy is sanctioned by the arbiter, because it's considered counter-playing.
If the guy wants to play football as a combat sport, then maybe he's playing the wrong game. He should be doing kickboxing or karate or any combat sport, just like the guy loving to make market deals would have more fun and challenge playing EVE.


I think the real reason isn't people having fun "playing the market". They do it to gain massive amounts of money quickly, which is totally different.
Maybe it's more "fun" to crook others than to work his ass out to produce money, but it doesn't makes it respectable. It's just hurting the crafters, fishers, farmers etc... by making them work more to pay overpriced items monopolized by the guys "playing the market".

Hurting others isn't a playstyle, that's why I deny it as one.

[fussel]

It sounds like they want the seller to pay the tax rather than the buyer, seems odd to me as well, since normally a buyer pays Sales Tax.

Only in America. If you go to a Store in Germany, pick up some item that got a "This costs 4.95 Euros" sticker on it and go to checkout, you'll pay exactly 4.95.

[Chantilly]

This is a bit different, but in Ultima Online there was no AH system. Players had houses, and in your house you could set up NPC vendors that held your goods for sale. Houses were expensive, but a house in a good location could be very lucrative. (Houses could be placed in the open world on flat terrain)

I realize FFXIV wont have houses or anything like that, but maybe they will have places to "rent" where people could permanently station NPCs/storefronts to sell things on their behalf? Or NPCs you can hire to stand in a merchant district/area of town? Just an idea.

[Pookypoo wannabe]

guess they want to make it more social than FFXI

the japanese mentality of team work and "you can't succeed if the others will not" sometimes is funny

[Algoth]

guess they want to make it more social than FFXI

the japanese mentality of team work and "you can't succeed if the others will not" sometimes is funny

I thought that was the point of playing MMOs.
I mean sure, it's more about flexing your epeen these days ala WoW, but the actual MMO roots (Ultima) were all about teamwork. Anything that promotes teamwork and actual interaction with other players (people who have to work together generally tend to form better communities, something that's important in MMOs) is okay in my book. MMOs have become too solo friendly anyway.

[Vuitton]

I haven't read this thread, but the answer to this seems really straight forward so I don't know why anyone is having trouble figuring this out.

If you sell something, you make money. If you make money, it can be taxed as income.

Tada!

[Daykine]

Inflation thing is a very interesting point...

I do think that this system is a bit less intuitive than simply applying a sales tax, though. People will just charge 5% more.
Though I suppose that in this system a slightly larger amount of money is being driven out...

Yeah, inflation is a new and exciting phenomenon

[Kaludneisucks]

Well, the guys at your store or supermarket are actually working. They do not add direct value to the pants or the food like the weaver or the farmer, but they do provide a service: the shop gathers products from all over the world for you, that's something you wouldn't be able to do on your own (unless you can fly to the west Indies every time you want to buy a banana).

the guy in walmart is not doing anything for me. I can walk in, find the item i need and check myself out on my own. stupid minimum wage slave is not in fact nessesary to the economy. the shop itself is not needed anymore either, i CAN in fact order direct goods from the factory and have them shipped, i will need to pay the shipping and the factory, but walmart is a profiteering middle man, or the toyota dealership, imagin if i could just get them factory direct without the markup? but.. i cant, so , now weve got the store raising prices to pay people to work for them to keep them off the streets, plus they need a profit of their own so they can stockpile goods for the apocalypse

so when i see some idiot in rolanberry selling currency for 2k imma buy dem and mark em up to 5k. cus thats capitalism nigs.

[Oulanbator]

the guy in walmart is not doing anything for me. I can walk in, find the item i need and check myself out on my own. stupid minimum wage slave is not in fact nessesary to the economy. the shop itself is not needed anymore either, i CAN in fact order direct goods from the factory and have them shipped, i will need to pay the shipping and the factory, but walmart is a profiteering middle man, or the toyota dealership, imagin if i could just get them factory direct without the markup? but.. i cant, so , now weve got the store raising prices to pay people to work for them to keep them off the streets, plus they need a profit of their own so they can stockpile goods for the apocalypse

so when i see some idiot in rolanberry selling currency for 2k imma buy dem and mark em up to 5k. cus thats capitalism nigs.

Fuck yes, let's all order a 24 pack beer at the factory in emergency on a Friday evening after learning we're going to an unexpected party. It's not like we ever need to rush to a store to buy something.

Not to mention buying to the factory might not be cheaper. You forgot the shipping prices. 1L of milk is like 0.80€. Sending a 1Kg item is about 8€, and it doesn't includes keeping the milk cold to prevent it from going sour.
So instead of 1€, I'm gonna pay 9€ and I'll have to wait a couple days to drink my milk: brilliant.

The guys dealing cars are usually in a <trademark> concession. Aka, you already buy your Toyota at Toyota's. The price will be the same if you go at the factory. In fact, it will probably be more expensive if you go at the factory, because the car dealer can actually offer you deals, while the factory website doesn't give a shit about how bank and your house credit.
Well sometimes factories offer good deals, but local retailers do as well... it's all about seeking the good deal.
However, you can't buy all the good deals to sell them back for more. There are taxes, gray cards, insurances and stuff to pay... kinda like what is added in the game.



I'm not fighting against capitalism, but what you advocate for is anarchy, which concept is "let's take what we want when we want without giving a fuck if it belongs to anyone else".

Capitalism: producing goods, services, wealth, exchanging goods for other goods or services -> being an actor of the free market.
Buying/Selling for profit: robbing people -> being a parasite of the free market, hurting buyers and sellers (because heh, whose pocket do you think this profit comes from ?)
Anarchy: just take what you want, even if you have to be violent -> fuck the market, invading is cheaper than trading so why bother ?


I'm not gonna take this debate to a Capitalism Vs. distorted visions of what Capitalism should be Vs. Communism Vs. "Your Mom naked is my capitalism" on a video game forum.
Next time, try not to be confused between Capitalism and the abuse of Capitalism by crooks.

[Zounder]

Is it possible that the tax/fee is simply due to the fact that the bazaar will be what replaces the AH? Perhaps it will be possible to browse everybody's bazaar from a single location (like the AH from XI) and you can buy from whoever you want regardless of where they are. So basically, it's a much more convenient AH (at least for the people selling the items, as they would no longer have to travel to an AH to put the items up for sale.)

I dunno how easy this would be to code/implement , but my point is, maybe this is the reasoning behind the tax. I read the thread and unless I missed it, nobody has dicussed/brought up/shot down this possibility so I figured I'd mention it.

Also, it's been cited in this thread that SE said there will be some kind of AH equivalent, so I don't see why people are speculating that the XI bazaar method will be the only way to buy/sell items. In addition to SE saying otherwise, that would simply be terrible.

(First post, woo.)

[weeman]

no AH might actually be a deal breaker for me. I was pretty pumped about this game, but I don't want to click on 400 Bazaars to find 1 linen thread. Imagine if there was ONLY bazaars in FFXI, there would have been 3,000 afk Bazaars outside of jeuno.

I also can't imagine sitting at my computer for 3 hours hoping someone passes by and clicks on my bazaar to sell a couple thousand gil worth of junk.

[Tulun]

no AH might actually be a deal breaker for me. I was pretty pumped about this game, but I don't want to click on 400 Bazaars to find 1 linen thread. Imagine if there was ONLY bazaars in FFXI, there would have been 3,000 afk Bazaars outside of jeuno.

I also can't imagine sitting at my computer for 3 hours hoping someone passes by and clicks on my bazaar to sell a couple thousand gil worth of junk.

It's not necessarily that dire.

If there is an effective search function (IE: Search for Linen thread; the following people have it in their bazaar at X price), then it's just a matter of finding that person.

SO, it can work perfectly fine, but the same system as bazaaring in 11 without the AH would be shit.
But there's no reason to think it'll be exactly like that.

[Jinko]

That is the kicker with Bazaars in general. They are /afkvendormode in a nutshell. If they really wish to force the average player into staying logged in 24/7 or even buying a second account simply in order to sell their loot, I don't think things will work out very well in the long run.

This, I can't see how they think this will be good for server congestion.

Give us a shop system please SE :D

[aru]

It's not necessarily that dire.

If there is an effective search function (IE: Search for Linen thread; the following people have it in their bazaar at X price), then it's just a matter of finding that person.

SO, it can work perfectly fine, but the same system as bazaaring in 11 without the AH would be shit.
But there's no reason to think it'll be exactly like that.

I'm really glad someone else realizes that just because it's called a "bazaar" doesn't mean that it is going to function in exactly the same manner in FFXIV as it did in FFXI. There are a lot of possibilities with how this system may work but for some reason everybody thinks you are going to be checking 1000s of characters in order to find an item. Ridiculous.

[SephYuyX]

I wonder if theyll do a PSU type of system.

[Hyan]

I wonder if theyll do a PSU type of system.

And what system is that?

[SilverBreeze]

And what system is that?

You set up a shop in your room that anyone can access or you can set so only certain people can access by password. There's a NPC that you can talk to where the owner of the room has placed items for sell that you can go buy at any time.

[SephYuyX]

The best parts being is that there is a search system, and you dont have to be online to bazaar stuff.

IE: If I wanted to sell a Ridill, id set it up with my Moogle, and set a price for it, and then I could forget about it; I can even logout, and never have to resubmit it unless I wanted to change the price.

The people who are looking for a Ridill to buy search for that item with their Moogle, and a list will pop up with all the people selling and the prices. You select the one you want to buy, and youre warped to their Moghouse where you can buy it from their NPC bazaar.

[dusted]

If with that kind of search system the item's name as the only variable, I'd be a little concerned. It sounds fine if you know what you're looking for, but not so much when you're looking or an upgrade for your beetle armour on your rarely played class and have no idea what the next tier of armour is, or if you've even skipped a few tiers or whatnot.