New Classes Discovered

[Kachi]

If there's going to be a class that's anything like a ninja then i'd really prefer it to be a pure damage dealer with really unique abilities. It's going to be a little hard to implement though because the assassin known in some mmo's is very similar to what a ninja actually is. How will a dagger class and a ninja sword(1-handed katana) class exist side by side in FFXIV? It'll be very interesting to see what the outcome turns out to be.

Thematically, Thief/Ninja/Assassin are close enough for most people, and Daggers don't differ that greatly from 1-H Katanas. However, I wonder how many players like myself have a notable distinction between the two classes do to classic FF characters like Locke and Zidane, who are roguish, but hardly ninja/assassins. They're not the same, not anymore than Locke and Shadow are the same.

I wouldn't be upset if they end up as the same class, but I'm not sure I'd prefer it.

[nomad2637]

Official class abbreviations are located in the file: FFXIV Alpha Version > lua > client > Quest > Scenario

For those without client they are: ACN, ALC, ARC, BSM, CNJ, CUL, EXC, FSH, GLA, HRV, LNC, MAN, MIN, PGL, TAN, THM, WDK, WVR

Edit: wow, i guess ignore this, forum listing most recent post first and the first post last is quite weird o.O

[Vacht]

Thematically, Thief/Ninja/Assassin are close enough for most people, and Daggers don't differ that greatly from 1-H Katanas. However, I wonder how many players like myself have a notable distinction between the two classes do to classic FF characters like Locke and Zidane, who are roguish, but hardly ninja/assassins. They're not the same, not anymore than Locke and Shadow are the same.

I wouldn't be upset if they end up as the same class, but I'm not sure I'd prefer it.

Its so evil, addiction manifests from withheld info and SE knows it! We long for good infos! I dont want to assume anything, because i know we are going to build up an idea that is improbable and probably something that sounds better than what SE is going to give us, if anything at all.

Edit: wow, i guess ignore this, forum listing most recent post first and the first post last is quite weird o.O

i think my brain has expired, or something. wtf are you talking about?

[Lunarhawk]

He's saying he's used to forums listing the original post on page 1 and the most recent post on page 11 in this case. However the default for this forum, fresh out of registering, is that the most recent post in the topic would be on the top of page 1 and the original post of the topic would be bottom of page 11 because it's some ass backwards bullshit most people aren't used to. You can easily change it to be normal in options.

[Satyr]

Its so evil, addiction manifests from withheld info and SE knows it! We long for good infos! I dont want to assume anything, because i know we are going to build up an idea that is improbable and probably something that sounds better than what SE is going to give us, if anything at all.




i think my brain has expired, or something. wtf are you talking about?

He means that his searching found the thread list backwards, so he thought he found the first post, jumped then to the end of the thread, and posted on that thought, when his first post was the end and what his topic would have been months old. It happened to me when I found this site, it can be easier to keep up to speed with the current topic when I open the thread and already I am up to speed

[nomad2637]

Lol, I didn't fiddle with anything, Mozilla Firefox loads it "normally" but Google Chrome is listing it in reverse order for me.

[niwaar]

even though i was nin for anything outside of end game in 11, i really hope ninja isnt in 14. i don't want utsusemi in another mmo

Ninjitsu without tools wouldn't be so bad, but I hate to think of how much gil the average Ninja wastes on interupts, plus they took up way too much inventory space.

Bring it back but make it more fair :D

I truly hope we see a ninja class in XIV. If it does come to be, I will not be going that far out on a limb when I say it will be fundamentally different than it was in XI. Utsusemi probably will be back, but in some other form. Either a huge evasion boost or just a single "shadow" ability that avoids the next attack. Gone are the days where they will allow a ninja to tank with 3-4 shadows up. I think you will more likely to see a hybrid melee, caster type set up with tool based elemental damage spells. I would believe that the tools would be concise and simple if in fact they chose to use tools. Something like 1 tool for everything.

However, remember that there will be many crafting classes and the only real way to make a living by crafting is crafting consumables. So multiple tools is a possibility.

[Loaar]

I agree with Vandole that I wouldn't want to see utsusemi in its FFXI form in FFXIV. If it absolutely had to be there, make it much less potent and unable to be used cross class ideally.

With the way the class system works it would be sad to see something added that every class considered a must have ability like it was in FFXI.

[roippi]

Archer: Decoy (II) Create a decoy, consuming TP to deploy an illusion capable of absorbing ranged and magic attacks.

Lancer: Diversion (II) Create a diversion, consuming TP to deploy an illusion capable of absorbing close-range attacks.

Emphasis mine. Suggests they're splitting utsu into ranged/melee and making it tp-based. Hell, with "capable of" in there, it might not be 100%. Speculate away.

[Battlecat]

Archer: Decoy (II) Create a decoy, consuming TP to deploy an illusion capable of absorbing ranged and magic attacks.

Lancer: Diversion (II) Create a diversion, consuming TP to deploy an illusion capable of absorbing close-range attacks.

Emphasis mine. Suggests they're splitting utsu into ranged/melee and making it tp-based. Hell, with "capable of" in there, it might not be 100%. Speculate away.

I'd think of them more like Third Eye than Utsusemi personally. Even though that's kind of splitting hairs I know lol

[Vobent]

More like Blink, if you want to go to the atomic level.

[Khamsin]

Well, hopefully they'll be guaranteed absorbs, so it can open up new avenues in tanking methods. Play Lancer and Archer long enough to get those abilities, equip them on Pugilist or Gladiator, profit? Might even become the de facto method for tanking, even if it's not quite what SE intended.

[Vacht]

Well, hopefully they'll be guaranteed absorbs, so it can open up new avenues in tanking methods. Play Lancer and Archer long enough to get those abilities, equip them on Pugilist or Gladiator, profit? Might even become the de facto method for tanking, even if it's not quite what SE intended.

Hmm, maybe using another class' ability wont be much different than subjobs afterall. I can see us getting certain abilities, but they wont be as powerful when equipped by other jobs. And the amount the power the ability retains can be dependant upon stats, gear or class...? its like Subjobbington Bear factory... where you make your own subjobz.


Just starting to understand the class system in this a bit more.

[darkscion0]

Personally I hope they don't add anything as strong as Utsu as well. I didn't like the idea that during certain events in FFXI you were expected to take NIN as your subjob because of the damage mitigation. I'd prefer to keep spells that are "must haves" for everyone out of FFXIV.

I wouldn't say the FFXI community is horrible with thinking outside the box, there's just been too much theorycrafting done. Everyone's figured out the best way to do anything in FFXI which is why I'm really looking forward to FFXIV. Everyone starts fresh and there's lots of opportunity for experimentation. In FFXIV I hope that SE can balance things enough that there's 4-5 ways to do something instead of just the best way.

Edit: I'm also hoping that hey weaken skills outside of your current class enough as to combat those "must have skills" that everyone will be expected to equip.

[Khamsin]

What's so bad about skills or gear that everyone must have lest they be considered gimp? Simply get the skill or gear in question and stop being such a noob.

While I don't care so much about must-have skills/gear that just anyone can get, I do hope there'll be gear that will give certain players distinction and set them apart from the casuals. From gear that's not too hard for someone in a good LS, but impossible for casuals to get like haidate, to gear that even people in good LSs can take years to get, like ridill/ebody, certain AF2s, salvage gear, etc. The last thing anyone wants is to be just like everyone else, and the way to be different is not through personal choices and customization but rather through having a solid, capable LS with a decent point system that can get claims and getting lucky with drops when you're up next for a rare item.

[Merlincloud]

This is my first post in this forum; so if its been discussed Im sorry I looked and didn't see anything on this yet.

SE has said that jobs are weapon based and that your physical lvl and job lvl are different but your skills are dependent on the weapon you have; so there is tiers of weapons (like in Final Fantasy 13 there is different tiers and ranks for weapons) so if this is the case would it be probable that say a NM has a weapon with a certain "skill" or "ability" that you can learn from that weapon?

[Khamsin]

And while to some my last post might seem like trolling, I am semi-serious.

I get the feeling that some want FFXIV to be a game where all content and gear will be equally accessible to everyone with a small static of friends, without the need for hardcore LSs or lucky claims or shitty drop rates, and that everyone will be set apart from one another not by what they do or don't have, but by their own personal styles of play and specializations, all of which will be equally effective with no one "best" skill/stat/gear build.

But the reality is, there will be a best stat build, best equipment (especially since there's no gearswapping, no more "shit's situational"), best set of skills, and if you don't have certain things, you won't be respected. There will be retarded specializations that nobody will invite for xp. There will be some fights where certain builds or party makeups are required. Some classes will be needed more than others. Some skills will be necessary for everyone. There will be items that everyone wants, and by necessity, LSs will form to get it. And those LSs will come up with a system to determine who gets what, when. And multiple LSs will compete for it.

It's naive to think this won't happen. Sure, it's a new game and when it first starts, we'll all be noobs in a happy wonderland where no one discriminates and nobody knows what separates a good player from a bad one. But it won't take long for us to figure it out, figure out what the best builds are and the best, most efficient paths to get there. And it won't take long to figure out how to tell which players are following that path and which aren't, so we know who to invite for parties and include in our LSs.

Knowing this will happen eventually, the best thing to do is not hope that it never comes. Instead, try to nudge SE in a preferred direction while the game is still in alpha. But don't try to push them into making the utopia that some would like it to be, because it won't happen. We must be realistic. Think of it more as a controlled descent to keep SE from crash landing into an endgame scenario nobody wants. There are some things we can possibly influence for the better, but in the end, we'll still have to think about ourselves and how we want to stand apart and be elite.

[Lurking Badger]

This is my first post in this forum; so if its been discussed Im sorry I looked and didn't see anything on this yet.

SE has said that jobs are weapon based and that your physical lvl and job lvl are different but your skills are dependent on the weapon you have; so there is tiers of weapons (like in Final Fantasy 13 there is different tiers and ranks for weapons) so if this is the case would it be probable that say a NM has a weapon with a certain "skill" or "ability" that you can learn from that weapon?

They haven't suggested a FFIX system, so far it seems that the abilites are tied to the class levels. For example you learn Skewer when you hit lancer lvl 2, regardless what kind of lance you are using (2 different kinds are listed on the official website, class description)

What they have suggested though is that certain weapons yield certain bonuses, one example is a parrying sword for Gladiator. What kind of bonus it would give is unspecified, but I haven't gotten the impression that it would be a unique skill, rather a physical stat or skill bonus.

[Merlincloud]

My bad then I didnt get that /sigh I fail
Must of not understood what I was reading. Thanks for explaining it

[Kachi]

And while to some my last post might seem like trolling, I am semi-serious.

I get the feeling that some want FFXIV to be a game where all content and gear will be equally accessible to everyone with a small static of friends, without the need for hardcore LSs or lucky claims or shitty drop rates, and that everyone will be set apart from one another not by what they do or don't have, but by their own personal styles of play and specializations, all of which will be equally effective with no one "best" skill/stat/gear build.

But the reality is, there will be a best stat build, best equipment (especially since there's no gearswapping, no more "shit's situational"), best set of skills, and if you don't have certain things, you won't be respected. There will be retarded specializations that nobody will invite for xp. There will be some fights where certain builds or party makeups are required. Some classes will be needed more than others. Some skills will be necessary for everyone. There will be items that everyone wants, and by necessity, LSs will form to get it. And those LSs will come up with a system to determine who gets what, when. And multiple LSs will compete for it.

It's naive to think this won't happen. Sure, it's a new game and when it first starts, we'll all be noobs in a happy wonderland where no one discriminates and nobody knows what separates a good player from a bad one. But it won't take long for us to figure it out, figure out what the best builds are and the best, most efficient paths to get there. And it won't take long to figure out how to tell which players are following that path and which aren't, so we know who to invite for parties and include in our LSs.

Knowing this will happen eventually, the best thing to do is not hope that it never comes. Instead, try to nudge SE in a preferred direction while the game is still in alpha. But don't try to push them into making the utopia that some would like it to be, because it won't happen. We must be realistic. Think of it more as a controlled descent to keep SE from crash landing into an endgame scenario nobody wants. There are some things we can possibly influence for the better, but in the end, we'll still have to think about ourselves and how we want to stand apart and be elite.

Personally I'm going to go out of my way to party with gimpy snowflakes and say fuck progress. If this game is legitimately fun, I won't care if I don't get the leetest gear as soon as possible, just like I don't care about rushing to max level with the best gear in a single player game. There's no epeen incentive. I'll get there on my own time if the game is fun enough for me to play it for that long.

And yeah, as long as the genre is MMORPG, there's probably going to be a certain proficiency that goes hand in hand with your configuration, rather than your ability as a player. It's not at all impossible to make shit situational and balanced (at all), but it's unlikely just the same. But all that -should- matter is how skillfully I play the game, and not what I want to wear or what skills I want to use, and fucking definitely not how anyone else plays.

But some people want to treat the game like it's a team sport, and that's fine... when it's your team. When it's a pickup game, it's kind of prickish to expect other people to play at the level you want them to. Team sports aren't much fun without the team or the sportsmanship.

And for reference, I'm as much a hardcore elitist as anyone else when it comes to myself, but it's not something about myself that I particularly like. If other people have fun sucking though, cool. I can hang with that. I just want to get away from the de facto munchkinism that plagues MMOs.