New Classes Discovered

[Reiryuu]

What I really hope to see is that nothing is really considered "gimp".

Every monster, including bosses, may have a weakness to something which a certain class has, but any combination of classes/skills would be able to work together to produce some sort of effect that will expose it to the type of skills and or damage they are capable of producing. That way it's not about "Oh, you don't have XXX skill, u R da gimpz0rz!" but we have "OK, we have Skill A, skill B and skill Y. We can use those to produce an effect (via Battle Regiment or whatever) that will make the mob weak vs. our Lancer's Z skill."

That way no one is ever "gimp" unless the group as a collective is too ignorant to work together.

[Battlecat]

Personally, I'm quite sick of this discussion.

From one of the early dev interviews:

Q10: Will this FFXIV be more “new person friendly” than FFXI was? (Once everyone had been playing for years, it was hard for new people who started to be able to play, even with the “level sync” system that was added in later. Not to mention, finding armors/weapons in the Auction House was nearly impossible for new players. Barely anyone used the “mentor” system in FFXI either, or rather, there were barely any hosts.)

A10: We are developing in-depth introductory tutorials for new players. We are also designing the game while keeping in mind those users who enjoy playing solo, as well as those who can only log in for short periods of time. There will also be plenty of content for newcomers.

But, on the other hand, there will also be complex battles requiring large numbers of people for players more interested in content of that nature.

Our main goal is really to create a variety of ways in which to enjoy the game.

You can play in whatever style you want. Just don't expect endgame players to accept you if you're not optimized. Hard things are hard, and having inferior players in your group makes them harder. If you don't want to optimize, they are planning specific content for casual and/or stupid players to join in on. This is almost day 1 info. If you're not going to bother to read what we already have, stop posting.

[Reiryuu]

Personally, I'm quite sick of this discussion.

From one of the early dev interviews:


You can play in whatever style you want. Just don't expect a$$hats who read some post on some forum where some random d00d said "thez stats are the ROXORZ!!1!!111!one!" and promptly switched to that without bothering to try other things for themselves to accept you if you're not a perfect cookie cutter of the l33t sp3k of the month. Hard things are hard, and having inferior players in your group makes them harder. If you don't want to optimize, they are planning specific content for casual and/or stupid players to join in on. This is almost day 1 info. If you're not going to bother to read what we already have, stop posting.

Fixed because, sadly, that's what most of these "endgame" players do. I remember forming a semi-perma with a few JP players in ToAU. I was leveling BLU/THF at the time and after the first partying, the next time they all came with some really weird job combos. We raped those fire crawler thingies at the volcano though without any problems though. It was a blast too.

[Battlecat]

Fixed because, sadly, that's what most of these "endgame" players do. I remember forming a semi-perma with a few JP players in ToAU. I was leveling BLU/THF at the time and after the first partying, the next time they all came with some really weird job combos. We raped those fire crawler thingies at the volcano though without any problems though. It was a blast too.

Congratulations on your awesome eruca xp. However, and I do mean this with all due respect... stfu. This isn't a complain about FFXI thread. In XIV you aren't required to interact with those people at all. So you can rock whatever gimp ass build you want and go solo xp and you won't have to worry about the big bad HNMLS guys ruining your fun.

[Uzor]

Congratulations on your awesome eruca xp. However, and I do mean this with all due respect... stfu. This isn't a complain about FFXI thread. In XIV you aren't required to interact with those people at all. So you can rock whatever gimp ass build you want and go solo xp and you won't have to worry about the big bad HNMLS guys ruining your fun.

Actually, I have to agree. A lot of end-game players in ALL games are sheep that just follow what other people do. They don't try and figure out the optimal combination for themselves. They do what they're told without asking questions and not thinking about it. They get told Item A > Item B, and without thinking about it for a second, they accept it as the one and only truth. Its one of the reasons I find most end-game people to be morons.

Yes, I know, people will figure out the "optimal" combo, but the current "optimal" combo is not neccesarily the best one. And god forbid someone try out a new combo.

This is not to be confused with bullshit combos that serve no purpose, though, like a sword-wielding Dragoon

[Reiryuu]

Congratulations on your awesome eruca xp. However, and I do mean this with all due respect... stfu. This isn't a complain about FFXI thread. In XIV you aren't required to interact with those people at all. So you can rock whatever gimp ass build you want and go solo xp and you won't have to worry about the big bad HNMLS guys ruining your fun.

I only picked FFXI because that's what most of us have in common, gaming experience wise.

I don't think any of us really expect to run into players who are trying to use a H2H lancer (it can't happen for one, but I think that gets the point across)

But I don't think it's fair to call a Gladiator who prefers swords over daggers "gimp" because his dagger skill is low and he doesn't want to level it to get that new gladiator dagger everyone is drooling over.

But I also don't think that anyone has the right to consider themselves above another player, lesser geared or not, when they are merely looking up "best builds" online and reading "how tos" for their boss strategies.

Now I don't know about you, but the high end gamers I respect are those who give a coy smile at the lesser geared party member, can still make the party work, then give the lesser player some advice on how they can improve their gear or playing style for the future.

[Tulun]

Actually, I have to agree. A lot of end-game players in ALL games are sheep that just follow what other people do. They don't try and figure out the optimal combination for themselves. They do what they're told without asking questions and not thinking about it. They get told Item A > Item B, and without thinking about it for a second, they accept it as the one and only truth. Its one of the reasons I find most end-game people to be morons.

Yes, I know, people will figure out the "optimal" combo, but the current "optimal" combo is not neccesarily the best one. And god forbid someone try out a new combo.

This is not to be confused with bullshit combos that serve no purpose, though, like a sword-wielding Dragoon

Well, in all fairness, it's not necessarily *CLEAR* what is better.
I mean, before parsing in 11, people had little idea what the hell was really better in terms of gear...

So people following others example (that say, have done some number crunching, parsing, etc) is actually a good idea. It saves a lot of bother.

[Battlecat]

First off, gimp is a relative term. If you've made enough poor decisions that you can't keep up with someone of the same class that has made mostly good decisions, then you're a gimp. This includes battle decisions. I've met plenty of extremely well geared people that are just as gimp as thieves that full time Denali Bonnet instead of using the better and easily obtained wally turban. I don't think everyone has to go out and get relic weapons or anything. Just make wise decisions when choosing gear and abilities. If you're going to let something silly like roleplaying or being too lazy to level sub classes stop you from improving at all, yeah, you're a gimp and you shouldn't expect to be included in higher tier endgame activities that require everyone operating at close to max to complete.

Anyway, the point to my post was that it doesn't matter if you're gimp or not. You don't have to get invites and potentially deal with d-bag endgame guys to get to level cap, cause you can just level solo or in small groups. They are specifically adding content that casual players and people that don't want to have to min/max can do. So there's absolutely no point in bitching about it. A lot of people call there being a need to min/max "unbalanced" but there's a crap load of people that enjoy doing it! It's what a lot of people find so intriguing about MMOs! There are quite a few people that don't enjoy it as well, that doesn't mean you dumb down the game so that everyone is pretty much the same, you add in different content that those people will enjoy as well! /end discussion

[Cairthenn]

First off, gimp is a relative term. If you've made enough poor decisions that you can't keep up with someone of the same class that has made mostly good decisions, then you're a gimp. This includes battle decisions. I've met plenty of extremely well geared people that are just as gimp as thieves that full time Denali Bonnet instead of using the better and easily obtained wally turban. I don't think everyone has to go out and get relic weapons or anything. Just make wise decisions when choosing gear and abilities. If you're going to let something silly like roleplaying or being too lazy to level sub classes stop you from improving at all, yeah, you're a gimp and you shouldn't expect to be included in higher tier endgame activities that require everyone operating at close to max to complete.

Anyway, the point to my post was that it doesn't matter if you're gimp or not. You don't have to get invites and potentially deal with d-bag endgame guys to get to level cap, cause you can just level solo or in small groups. They are specifically adding content that casual players and people that don't want to have to min/max can do. So there's absolutely no point in bitching about it. A lot of people call there being a need to min/max "unbalanced" but there's a crap load of people that enjoy doing it! It's what a lot of people find so intriguing about MMOs! There are quite a few people that don't enjoy it as well, that doesn't mean you dumb down the game so that everyone is pretty much the same, you add in different content that those people will enjoy as well! /end discussion

You'll be about one in... just about everybody else... who actually thinks like that here, just a fair warning.

[Lurking Badger]

You seem very assured of being able to solo. While I don't doubt that it is possible to reach level cap stritcly solo regardless of how much longer time it takes than a party player, SE has said during interviews that though they like the romantic concept of a "lone adventurer", game play will be very limited if you don't group.

[Vacht]

I only picked FFXI because that's what most of us have in common, gaming experience wise.

I don't think any of us really expect to run into players who are trying to use a H2H lancer (it can't happen for one, but I think that gets the point across)

But I don't think it's fair to call a Gladiator who prefers swords over daggers "gimp" because his dagger skill is low and he doesn't want to level it to get that new gladiator dagger everyone is drooling over.

But I also don't think that anyone has the right to consider themselves above another player, lesser geared or not, when they are merely looking up "best builds" online and reading "how tos" for their boss strategies.

Now I don't know about you, but the high end gamers I respect are those who give a coy smile at the lesser geared party member, can still make the party work, then give the lesser player some advice on how they can improve their gear or playing style for the future.

People are going to be dicks and find ways to justify it. The only reason those big bad HNM LS's are so demanding of a certain playstyle is because said playstyle is required to accomplish the objectives they have in place. And like in FFXI your status was based on your gear primarily, so if you had more gear you were essentially better than others. But if youre smarter than that youll realize your own priorities and see that your own playstyle should be right for you. Then you find nitwits who buy an acct or inherit good gear, or purchase it for no damn good reason, or they dont even know how to utilize it and then act like dicks about someone elses spec or gear. They just imitate personalities and people they admire. (kind of off topic, but this is what happens when something is commercialized, too. ex: punk rock)

To be frank, anyone who thinks they know your best interest is a fucking moron.

[Achitophel]

These threads would be so much better to lurk through with less Battlecat.

[SilverBreeze]

They are better without people adding their (un)witty comments as well.

[Loaar]

Since this thread has gone off the rails a bit, and I have been trolling through old interviews to find some answers for another thread, I found this which I had forgotten about:

There will also be classes that serve as "MP controllers" that can help manage the MP of the party.

Source: http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=21825

Sooo, which of the "new" mage classes do you think this one will be? Could it be they are referring to alchemist here dispensing potions?

Also,

Blacksmith: Uses metals to craft weapons and armor. Requires training. For those who enjoy doing business and dealing with customers.

Source: http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=21841

There was a fair bit of talk on these forums about armorers making armor and blacksmiths making weapons, or repairing only weapons etc. What what SE said there it seems that blacksmith makes both armor and weapons, so what does the armorer do? Maybe the armorer is the repair class?

(Just trying to steer it back towards classes and away from the pointless min/max debate)

[Reiryuu]

My guess is it's going to be the Arcanist. I'm not familiar with the FFTA class, but Arcanist derived from Arcane would make sense to manipulate magic. I am imagining the Mystic as a sort of Shaman type character with strong buffing spells and damaging DoTs.

[Corrderio]

But I don't think it's fair to call a Gladiator who prefers swords over daggers "gimp" because his dagger skill is low and he doesn't want to level it to get that new gladiator dagger everyone is drooling over.

This depends, if this new dagger brings a whole new/effective playstyle for Gladiator then yes I'd consider the gladiator an gimp/lazy ass for not wanting to put effort into dagger. That's like a PLD saying they don't want to get a brave blade for atonement because they're not DDs/don't want to make a new atonement TP set.

I'm not too anal about people's gear choices. I'm not going to go apeshit if they don't have whiteboxes and other things, I do however expect them to have at least acceptable gear. Like if a melee had to farm gil for a Hauby they should be able to get Woodsman rings to instead of DEX rings for TP.

[Battlecat]

These threads would be so much better to lurk through with less Battlecat.

Because I tried to explain how the game works based on what SE has said and not on whatever fantasy popped into my head? Or because I defended min/maxers? Either way, you're more than welcome to add me to your ignore list. Just click on my name and go to my profile. There's another drop down menu called "user lists" and hit ignore. Filters out all the posts made by that person. It's quite helpful.

[kaisero]

I honestly don't know anyone who enjoys the min/max aspect of the game. Except maybe for the douchebags that think they're above everyone else and freaks out if a player doesn't have everything +1'd.

The point of an MMORPG is to have fun (the game aspect) and interact with other people online (the multiplayer aspect) and not be obsessed by numbers. At least, that's what the developers had in mind originally...

[Revenance]

I honestly don't know anyone who enjoys the min/max aspect of the game. Except maybe for the douchebags that think they're above everyone else and freaks out if a player doesn't have everything +1'd.

The point of an MMORPG is to have fun (the game aspect) and interact with other people online (the multiplayer aspect) and not be obsessed by numbers. At least, that's what the developers had in mind originally...

You have to realize, some people's enjoyment in an MMO comes from upgrading their character to be the best it can be. People enjoy different things.

[kaisero]

Yeah, some people enjoy upgrading their equipment, which is fine because that's what they enjoy. But, other people obsess over this fact and lose sight of why they even wanted to start up an MMO.

But hey... whatever floats their boat.