w1zbot userlist

[Eanae]

No one cares to have an excuse. I have claim, you don't. Reason enough.

[Aurara]

Mafai?

My friend told me his mule would do all kinds of stuff like that if you gave it commands.

i can vouch for this 100%!

[Meat]

I could buy a pack of diapers for $20. Way higher on my priority list than buying a bot.

should bought a pack of condoms coulda save a lot more in the long run

[Priran]

Thanks for not reading the thread Eanae, you're proving my point.

[Mafai]

Mafai?

My friend told me his mule would do all kinds of stuff like that if you gave it commands.

I used onevent for corsair rolls for it to play rolls on tiamat is all that comes to mind, a person would say evokers / beast / double up and it would do it when i was not available to play.

[Meat]

I don't know about everyone else, but I POS hack because its so much freaking fun, not because I'm trying to gain an advantage over anyone else ;D

pfft i bet you've never pos hacked anything really fun, lets say like a wyrm..

*edit* guess i should have read this thread before asking

[Kipling]

should bought a pack of condoms coulda save a lot more in the long run

Ahahahaha! This man wins.

[Baelorn]

No one cares to have an excuse. I have claim, you don't. Reason enough.

I generally don't have a problem with botting HNMs, the claim system is SE's fuck up, but you are a shining example of everything that is wrong with FFXI endgame. Just wanted to put that out there.

[Yugl]

I don't like to chime in on these bot v something debates, but some pieces of this relies on flawed logic or debatable assumptions (Stuff I like to talk about).

Since FFXI requires no reflexes, simply thought, we can assume that a good player is both an intelligent player and has learned many things about the game already. Keep in mind that intelligence is a measure of ability to learn and adapt, while knowledge is that which has already been learned.

Assumption (Reflexes): No reflexes is probably true for someone who uses spellcast. FFXI may not be anywhere close to that of a FPS in regards to reflexes, but for certain solos, it certainly requires a fair degree of reaction when you're not using spell cast.

Semantics (Intelligence): Adapting may not be a necessary part of the definition. Adaptability is dependent on resources and capability, but resources do not necessarily gravitate towards intelligent individuals.

Drawing from this, an intelligent player is also an intelligent person, as intelligence itself is a general quality.

Assumption (Comparative): This assumes that the ability to learn FFXI mechanics is equivalent to everything else in life. However, I think many of us would agree that some things are easier to grasp than others.

An intelligent person will realize that kings are botted and most(all?) other NMs are not competed for enough to merit a bot. While they may or may not camp kings, they realize that bots will not end there as there will always be a way to simulate simple actions through programs and there will always be people aiming for an unfair advantage.

An intelligent person will either avoid kings or use a bot.

Assumption (Intelligent = Rational): It's true that under the definition you provided, an individual would come to the conclusions you mentioned. However, even if X results from one's reasoning, it doesn't mean their actions will follow from that reasoning. Your definition of intelligence only account for the ability to learn and adapt. Hence, it wouldn't necessarily follow that an intelligent person is limited to the two actions described. In other words, this only holds true if we assume intelligent individuals to be rational ones.

[drwaffles]

HE'S SAYING BOTTING IS BAD? HE MUST BE TROLLING!

Get lost.

Your arguments are laughable, your reasoning is non-existent and you don't even seem to be reading the same posts as the rest of us. You're clearly just trying to stir shit up. Case in point: when you try to claim that this post = me trying to justify botting as a (lol)morally acceptable practice.

By the way, if you're not trolling then you're just quite a stupid individual. If I were you I'd try to ensure I was branded as the former. I can't imagine being born stupid, it must be an incredibly frustrating existence... then again most stupid people are blissfully unaware of their own stupidity, so maybe not!

[Tsuko_Asura]

So then we're in agreement, botters ruin the game.

Riddle me this: what's your solution to botting?

[Yugl]

Riddle me this: what's your solution to botting?

http://www.399animeshop.com/anime/im...-note-book.jpg

This?

[Kilorilo]

found this kinda amusing.

Spoiler: show

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8890/lolwiz.png

[Priran]

Your arguments are laughable, your reasoning is non-existent and you don't even seem to be reading the same posts as the rest of us. You're clearly just trying to stir shit up. Case in point: when you try to claim that this post = me trying to justify botting as a (lol)morally acceptable practice.

By the way, if you're not trolling then you're just quite a stupid individual. If I were you I'd try to ensure I was branded as the former. I can't imagine being born stupid, it must be an incredibly frustrating existence... then again most stupid people are blissfully unaware of their own stupidity, so maybe not!

Delicious tears.

There's a well thought-out post right above you that explains the problems with Thorny's logic, but feel free keep defending his stupid shit. While you're at it, keep pretending that accusing someone of trolling makes you more "intelligent" than the "peanut gallery", it's really fascinating.

[Priran]

Riddle me this: what's your solution to botting?

This game is beyond saving. They should have banned the shit out of anyone botting back in the day and put the fear of fucking god in anyone who even thought about it, but instead they dragged their feet with their useless GMs and burden of proof that would frustrate the ACLU.

FF14 needs to get rid of this client-side BS.

[Tsuko_Asura]

This game is beyond saving. They should have banned the shit out of anyone botting back in the day and put the fear of fucking god in anyone who even thought about it, but instead they dragged their feet with their useless GMs and burden of proof that would frustrate the ACLU.

FF14 needs to get rid of this client-side BS.

That's not what I asked. I want to know what your solution to botting is, not what you think should have been done.

[BadKarma]

This game is beyond saving. They should have banned the shit out of anyone botting back in the day and put the fear of fucking god in anyone who even thought about it, but instead they dragged their feet with their useless GMs and burden of proof that would frustrate the ACLU.

FF14 needs to get rid of this client-side BS.

Stop being so butthurt about a dead game

[Eanae]

You're the only one spewing tears. Wahhhhh botting. Wahhhh.

[drwaffles]

Delicious tears.

Again, I'm sure you're not reading the same posts as the rest of us.

While you're at it, keep pretending that accusing someone of trolling makes you more "intelligent" than the "peanut gallery", it's really fascinating.

How is me claiming that you're trolling due to the fact that your arguments hold less water than a corroded sieve in any way comparable to a bunch of semi-lurkers popping their heads into a thread and siding with the person whose opinion they agree with without any regard for the actual content of the arguments on both sides?

[Thorny]

Assumption (Intelligent = Rational): It's true that under the definition you provided, an individual would come to the conclusions you mentioned. However, even if X results from one's reasoning, it doesn't mean their actions will follow from that reasoning. Your definition of intelligence only account for the ability to learn and adapt. Hence, it wouldn't necessarily follow that an intelligent person is limited to the two actions described. In other words, this only holds true if we assume intelligent individuals to be rational ones.

It was mostly a joke post, obviously doesn't all carry directly and you can be more than competent at FFXI while still thinking you can claim kings without a bot(quantifying false hope is difficult, but eh). I don't think you can make a valid argument for FFXI requiring advanced reflexes, even if you play on PS2 and hit 3-4 macros per spell, the cast time a spell takes up limits how much you'll have to hit. Admittedly, I could have been more specific regarding adaptation, though I meant it in the sense of doing damage control when something doesn't go as planned. Anyone who's done any amount of endgame knows a few people who do everything wrong as soon as it goes off of the original plan, as well as a few people who are very good at recovering. This stems from intelligence, not as much from resources. Comparing intelligence as a measure of ability ingame to the ability to conclude that kings are a waste without bots is not nearly as farfetched as carrying to real life in general.

However, this leaves your last(and best) point unaddressed. I honestly can't disagree, though I hate being in linkshells with the people who always have unrealistic expectations. If you have 6-8 people online during fafnir window and don't bot, that guy pestering you all to go camp it anyway gets on your nerves really fucking quickly.