FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread II: Let's Speculate the Speculations

[Ae Cha]

You ever tried playing the game on PS2? Good luck fitting all that stuff to 640x480 resolution screen.

It'd be hideously ugly and cluttered, but it could work. Half of them could just be overlayed on top of the existing graphical indicators. A few numbers here and there don't take up THAT much space, and they could easily be given options to toggle them off.

[Jinko]

It would be fine if they'd actually implement changes to the default UI, but they don't. The only thing I even really noticed changed from when I played XI in 2003 to when I started again in 2008 is that defocusing the window didn't crash the client, but even then that feature remained in the game so long that I have three or four old keyboards in my closet with the windows keys ripped out. Still no numeric buff timers, party TP gauges, distance counters, etc. -- things that would be very simple to integrate into the default UI and solve the modding problem at its root, but they don't do this. The fact these things don't seem to be in FFXIV from the beginning suggests that they aren't about to start, either.

As Hyan pointed out playing FF11 on a PS2 had little screen estate to play with to begin with, and supposedly SE reckon that the UI couldn't be reworked because of PS2 limitations

They have said in several interviews that they plan to continue to listen to the fanbase after the beta so I guess we will see if they stick to that, hopefully 14 has been made so they can easily adjust the UI without reworking the main engine.

The only addon I remember that Blizzard really tuned encounters for was Decursive, but that was fixed with the release of BC. After that, I had no trouble playing the game with the default UI (with plenty of post-patch Tuesday raids to show for it), the customization just cosmetically enhanced it, streamlined it and made it easier for me to personally manage it to my own play style. Blizzard actually took cues from the modders and made their own default UI better, too, which I'm not seeing as a bad thing.

Sorry but pretty much all the raids in WoTL require a threat meter, some form of UI for healing (healbot/grid) and DBM to be successful, the fights are so dynamic now that its almost impossible to succeed playing with just the standard UI.

I don't think its a bad thing really, the game has evolved quite well over the years and blizzard should be commended for what they have brought to the game (easy mode aside), I will be interested to see how they tackle their next MMO, I wouldn't be surprised if it plays like a realtime hack and slash RPG with the direction they are heading in with recent WoW encounters.

[loyaltrekie]

Someone please suggest that they add some kind of timer to show how long the buff has left, even if it's only on mouseover... something, anything.

I'll be quite sad if I have to download more apps to tell me how long I have left on buffs -_-

[Hyan]

I wonder if they could make the UI server-side...

[Rocl]

*EDIT*
Also underwhelmed on Archer's abilites so far. Att up ability doesn't work with puncture or multishot, so it's pretty useless.

Sorry if this is late, but I am nearly 100% you are wrong. Raging Strikes (or w/e the fuck its called) definitely raised my multi-shot damage by about 30 per arrow. It normally did ~70x2, with ATT+ it did ~100-110x2. I only tried it with Puncture once on a tiny aurelia, and it definitely used the buff and seemed to do more damage but I wasn't watching damage.

[Eldan]

I wonder if they could make the UI server-side...

Nah, any rendering of that kind of stuff server-side and you're just sending images back to the client, which is definitely not the way to go.

[Hyan]

Nah, any rendering of that kind of stuff server-side and you're just sending images back to the client, which is definitely not the way to go.

Why?

[Spira]

Not to steal your thunder, as that's some great reporting, and is pleasing to guys like me who didn't like FFXI's archaic system, but much of that has become the MMO "standard", so they were as likely to draw that from their rivals as they were from their previous FF titles.

while I think its good that XIV is taking this approach.. i wouldn't necessary consider it to be an eventual thing. Aside from the fact that FFXI was the first mmorpg designed with a console in mind, it also differed a lot in terms of UI.. like with the lack of giant button hotkeys grid and other things common to an mmorpg.

Its sometimes good to take from other games.. but I've never seen SE and the FF franchise as being one to prefer just grabbing ideas from other games, even in the MMO genre.

I don't see how an icon flashing is doing everything for us, its no different than someone having to ask for haste or fresh every few minutes.

I think alot of people need to get rid of the notion that this is FF11-2

they probably have fixed times. I'm guesstimating flashing means 1minute and quick flashing means 30seconds left. Numbers would work too, but the devs chose this, so I'm assuming its a aesthetic preference or design philosophy.
Hopefully they'll allow for options.

FFXIV is really not that far away from FFXI-2. It may be FF, but its also closer to XI more than any other FF out there, or MMORPG for that matter. Ideally if we get rid of the notion, we'd be able to learn about the game without XI's prejudices overshadowing us, but for the most part, the game proves to play similar (or even identically) to XI.

It'd be hideously ugly and cluttered, but it could work. Half of them could just be overlayed on top of the existing graphical indicators. A few numbers here and there don't take up THAT much space, and they could easily be given options to toggle them off.

With XI it wouldnt have been possible. XI is really a survivor of the last generation, compounded by the fact that it was designed with a PS2 as the weakest link in mind... and the PS2 isn't a very powerful console. Its no issue to implement it on the PC, but I get the feeling the developers philosophy was that they didn't want any platform to have a natural advantage (which is kinda foolish actually)

Also it was technologically difficult for its time. the PS2 displays on TVs and back in its day, LCD hadnt fully caught on, let alone HD.. so even if the game allowed for small little numbers and icons, it might not be feasible when putting it on an SD display.

did a quick google and

Spoiler: show

heres XI on the PS2.
http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/ff...03_02_640w.jpg

chat and basic stats stuff take up almost half the screen.

here's a beta img, but as you can see, with full alliance, it takes up another 3rd of the screen
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images...0screen025.jpg

a list of buffs alone would cover the screen up pretty badly..
also, if you opened your equipment menu in ally, you pretty much can't see the background anymore.

XIV does have the opportunities tho, since its HD and its overlay is exactly 3 times the size so it has enough space to accomodate that much more additional info.

eg pic
http://www.cairxiv.net/images/gamesc...alpha2/010.jpg

If the person was in a full party (of idk 15 people?) and everyone had buffs up, it'd still clutter the right side, or about 1/5th of the screen im sure.

also lol 1337 tp

[Hyan]

Well, looks like XI UI went through some aesthetical changes during it's beta too.

I doubt they're completely finished with it.

but for the most part, the game proves to play similar (or even identically) to XI.

I don't think this will be the case, after we get further in the game.

Would be really nice to see group vs. group in action. I assume that's where the biggest differences will come from.

[Jinko]

we'd be able to learn about the game without XI's prejudices overshadowing us

This, I just feel that some people are so loyal to the way FF11 was, that any change = bad change.

But then I suppose it really depends on the person personality, some people just can't adapt to change very well.

LOL at the PS2 UI display, so glad I didn't have to deal with that.

[Ae Cha]

Sorry but pretty much all the raids in WoTL require a threat meter, some form of UI for healing (healbot/grid) and DBM to be successful, the fights are so dynamic now that its almost impossible to succeed playing with just the standard UI.

I quit just before Sunwell came out, but I don't see how those things would be necessary for a fight. I've cleared (almost) every bit of content I've played through with the default raid UI at least once (and I played a druid with full gear sets for every spec, so I've healed, tanked and DPSed for most of them). The only thing grid does that that the default UI doesn't is make things easier to see (I never had any trouble scrubbing debuffs or maintaining rotations with it), and threat meters were never much more than idiot-proofing; good DPS players get a feel for how much their guild's tanks can handle pretty damn fast or they die. I haven't actually played WotLK content myself so I probably shouldn't comment on it, but considering the only complaints I've seen about WoW encounters are that they're getting easier, I doubt they've instated a particularly harsh threat bottleneck that vanilla or BC WoW didn't have or brought back Decursive-era debuff plagues.

Playing with a modded UI is certainly more comfortable and I wouldn't use the default UI by choice, but since Decursive it's never been necessary. DBM/BigWigs is close, but can be substituted with intelligent playing and vent use -- somebody had to fight the boss without it before their patterns get coded into the mod, obviously. I've done Vashj without it, and I'm having trouble imagining a more timer-laden clusterfuck than that. I wouldn't confuse crutch mods and idiot-proofing with a necessity, unless your guild is full of idiots, but that's an entirely different problem altogether.

With XI it wouldnt have been possible. [...]

I can see places they'd be able to fit these things into. It would be tight and ugly, but technically possible (bit of cramped space under the party bars for a simple numeric TP counter, buff timers could be overlayed on top of the graphical buffs that are already there, distance counters could be easily fit into the target box). Maybe there are other size-unrelated problems related to the PS2 I'm not seeing, I am not very well versed in the mechanics of it.

Maybe FFXIV will have the opportunity to fix these problems that XI didn't, but considering they've had eight years of feedback and went straight back to the same old "flashing icon" system, it's not a very good sign. I am a bit cynical regarding SE, though; maybe they will surprise me.

[Hyan]

Maybe FFXIV will have the opportunity to fix these problems that XI didn't

"Problem" in this case is quite a subjective thing.

[Ae Cha]

"Problem" in this case is quite a subjective thing.

I think PC players having an unfair advantage over console players by being able to mod their games to show things like timers is a pretty unambiguous problem. Making Windower et al. against the ToS did nothing to stop it. Integrating commonly modded mechanics into the default UI so modding is unnecessary will. (That or making PS3 mods possible.)

[Hyan]

That's why as many things as possible should be server-side and not client-side.

Or at least give a notification to SE if something is changed client-side.

[Ae Cha]

That's why as many things as possible should be server-side and not client-side.

Or at least give a notification to SE if something is changed client-side.

So you'd rather them make an unwieldy, vague UI and devote resources to making it unalterable than an active effort by the developers to make something something user friendly and customizable across all platforms? :/

Knowing SE, though, this is probably just what they'll do.

[Hyan]

Like I said, it's not so black and white.

[Lucavi]

Sorry but pretty much all the raids in WoTL require a threat meter, some form of UI for healing (healbot/grid) and DBM to be successful, the fights are so dynamic now that its almost impossible to succeed playing with just the standard UI.

I figured that with all the butthurt FFXI players that cry over how "ezmode" WoW is, having fights that are hectic and push the player (heroic Sindragosa, I'm looking at YOU!) would be a good thing.

But I suppose when you can just blink tank it or kite it around while kraken-zerging something to death for a 3 percent droprate, you wouldn't want a fight that involved doing more.

[Hyan]

You don't need to force people into using add-ons to make fights hectic and demanding.

[Jinko]

I figured that with all the butthurt FFXI players that cry over how "ezmode" WoW is, having fights that are hectic and push the player (heroic Sindragosa, I'm looking at YOU!) would be a good thing.

But I suppose when you can just blink tank it or kite it around while kraken-zerging something to death for a 3 percent droprate, you wouldn't want a fight that involved doing more.

Like I say I have nothing againts WoW it is what it is and it does it pretty well, Personally I have always been a fan of slow throught out game mechanics, there is just too much room for error in fast paced hectic WoW style fights, yes a lot of that is down to player skill, but latency issues start to take a front seat when reaction time is paramount.

[Lazytowner]

I figured that with all the butthurt FFXI players that cry over how "ezmode" WoW is, having fights that are hectic and push the player (heroic Sindragosa, I'm looking at YOU!) would be a good thing.

But I suppose when you can just blink tank it or kite it around while kraken-zerging something to death for a 3 percent droprate, you wouldn't want a fight that involved doing more.

Deja fucking vu. Going to hit "ignore" on every fucker instigating an argument about add-ons rather than a discussion.