FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread II: Let's Speculate the Speculations

[Hyan]

to testers; any idea why they are delaying the tests again this week? i dont see them announcing any new dates so maybe there was something fundamentaly F'd about test 3? just wondering since i see that apparently it went much smoother then last time.

maybe they are moving closer to 24 hour testing windows?

From the sound of it sure it was better but still not stable enough to really test all the mechanics available, like battle regimens.

They need to sort out the lag issues first of all.

[Loaar]

to testers; any idea why they are delaying the tests again this week? i dont see them announcing any new dates so maybe there was something fundamentaly F'd about test 3? just wondering since i see that apparently it went much smoother then last time.

maybe they are moving closer to 24 hour testing windows?

Delaying?

(All days/times in my timezone)

Normally they give us about 36hours notice, and the first test (normally) is wed morning. I'd expect the announcment to be monday night (like it usually is), which is in about 5-6 hours.

Theres no delays, the days/times for the tests and the days/times they tell us about them have been the same every week apart from the 3rd week when the server died and they scrapped the remaining tests.

[Zeb]

SE probably hasn't touched anything since Thursday night's alpha run, due to it being Goldenweek. I wouldn't get my hopes up for another run until this Thursday.

[Corresapolonia]

SE probably hasn't touched anything since Thursday night's alpha run, due to it being Goldenweek. I wouldn't get my hopes up for another run until this Thursday.

this

[Hyan]

I wonder if they'll just let everyone take the week off like that, with the alpha being delayed already ;o.

Hopefully the normal Japanese "loyalty to your company" ideal applies here too :D. "Work harder today, get extended holiday on the silver week!"

Of course it's just wishful thinking... Q_Q

[Suirin]

Allow me to add yet another topping to the food discussion for my first post.
Well, and some later.

First the topping:
We all know that in FFXI, there were "good" foods, "cheap alternatives" and
"the crap noone ever ate". I always thought that was rather sad, and a
wasted chance for uniqueness and diversity.

Now take, for example:

Miq'Kabobs Elez Eearfry Lala Tartar Galktail Soup
Player A: +5 Str, +3 Vit +3 Str, +5 Vit +8 Str, +4 Vit +4 Str, +8 Vit
Player B: +3 Str, +5 Vit +5 Str, +3 Vit +4 Str, +8 Vit +8 Str, +4 Vit

Of course, you'll have already figured out what I am aiming at; Galktail and
Lala food would, compared to Miq and Elez food, require rare ingredients,
and as such it would generally be the more potent (and expensive) choice.

However, while Miq'Kabobs would arguably be the better choice for Player A
while playing a Damage-Dealer*, Player B would be better off chewing
through those juicy ears.

Of course, there would be Players C, D, and E, Aldgoats, Antelopes and
Behemoths, who would be turned into Stew, Meatballs and Burgers as well. I
guess the general system is understandable.

Something like this would finally give those poor crafters some reason to
actually produce a real variety of foods, as *someone* would actually buy
that stuff as it "fits" his character. Throw in a seasoning of (true)
randomness, and you pepper my day (there was a very intelligent idea some
posts earlier - change what your character "feels like eating" on a daily base
for special bonuses, for example. Easy, exciting and fun.)

Now, someone tell me - is there anything wrong with that idea of mine?



* For all those from Wow: A "Dps", I think; the guy who feels good if his
parse beats another party member's parse.

[Siatdiat]

Allow me to add yet another topping to the food discussion for my first post.
Well, and some later.

First the topping:
We all know that in FFXI, there were "good" foods, "cheap alternatives" and
"the crap noone ever ate". I always thought that was rather sad, and a
wasted chance for uniqueness and diversity.

Now take, for example:

Miq'Kabobs Elez Eearfry Lala Tartar Galktail Soup
Player A: +5 Str, +3 Vit +3 Str, +5 Vit +8 Str, +4 Vit +4 Str, +8 Vit
Player B: +3 Str, +5 Vit +5 Str, +3 Vit +4 Str, +8 Vit +8 Str, +4 Vit

Of course, you'll have already figured out what I am aiming at; Galktail and
Lala food would, compared to Miq and Elez food, require rare ingredients,
and as such it would generally be the more potent (and expensive) choice.

However, while Miq'Kabobs would arguably be the better choice for Player A
while playing a Damage-Dealer*, Player B would be better off chewing
through those juicy ears.

Of course, there would be Players C, D, and E, Aldgoats, Antelopes and
Behemoths, who would be turned into Stew, Meatballs and Burgers as well. I
guess the general system is understandable.

Something like this would finally give those poor crafters some reason to
actually produce a real variety of foods, as *someone* would actually buy
that stuff as it "fits" his character. Throw in a seasoning of (true)
randomness, and you pepper my day (there was a very intelligent idea some
posts earlier - change what your character "feels like eating" on a daily base
for special bonuses, for example. Easy, exciting and fun.)

Now, someone tell me - is there anything wrong with that idea of mine?



* For all those from Wow: A "Dps", I think; the guy who feels good if his
parse beats another party member's parse.

One thing to consider about food for 14 is the grouping values could be alot different. Most players who started at release on to early 2004 remember noone using food in parties, people using crazy sub jobs, etc. By summer 2004 you had 75 NA importers, and about 2 waves of 75 NA players, and the standards begun. This is about when parties began to be very demanding. I think the fact that xping in ffxi was grinding made everyone very picky because most people want to get their levels and be done with it. If the guildleves make the xp process seem less of a grind, people may not be worried as much about perfection and people will be more open to using different foods. I guess this is about when speculation gets really difficult, because we dont know what the gameplay is going to feel like, so cant be totally sure how demanding different aspects will be.

The funniest thing is I remember most players who were the earliest elitisists for ffxi leveled their first 75s as total gimp shits because you could get away with it in the beginning because most people didnt have a firm grasp of all the possibilities. Hell, I knew alot of people who made it to 50+ as things like NIN/THF because tanking as NIN wasnt widespread yet, lol. I myself worried pretty hard about gear because of xping with 2 blm parties and hating if another taru outdamaged me. When I realized the value of food I quickly got adjusted to always carrying some kind of int/hmp food. I used some food I dont even remember now until the 60s when I started using melon pie +1. This was prior to summer '04.

[Suirin]

And now for the . I Guess this will mark the point where I lose all those
few who were still with me after my first post. What a short-lived existence.

Believe it or not, I am actually old enough to remember a time when there
was no internet. Yes, I am *that* old. For better understanding, imagine me
as an Adamantoise.

In those days, we had nothing that told us how to beat a certain boss, or
how to finish a certain quest in our 8-Bit-console* adventures. And most of
all: no parser to disenchant the wonder of acquiring a glimmering sword of
unknown awesomeness into a pile of numbers, comparison tables, and
Damage increases on a rainy day when facing north-west.

Even during the first year of FFXI, there was sort of a Golden Age of myth
and weird experimentation, as no "best" builds had been firmly established.
It was only during the later years of the game when it became apparent that
SE had underestimated the power of perfectionists, which by countless
hours, days and weeks of diligent research would set the cookie-cutter
standards of the present.

If there is one single wish I have for FFXIV, it is this:

"Please, Sage Sundi, be as weird and cute as you look, and give us the
possibility to be really, really unique. Not just closer to the perfect cookie.
Bring back the Fantasy."



*The storage capacity of a modern-day computer divided by the number of
visible stars on a cloudless night.

[Hyan]

Cute ideals, but it ain't gonna happen.

It can be delayed for some time, but it is inevitable.

[King Zuca]

Delaying?

(All days/times in my timezone)

Normally they give us about 36hours notice, and the first test (normally) is wed morning. I'd expect the announcment to be monday night (like it usually is), which is in about 5-6 hours.

Theres no delays, the days/times for the tests and the days/times they tell us about them have been the same every week apart from the 3rd week when the server died and they scrapped the remaining tests.

the lasts test runs had a test on sunday, thats why i was asking. so there is obviously some type of delay

[Loaar]

They only scheduled 1 test last week, most likely due to the fact that the previous week the servers crashed and this week was testing the fix. They announce the full weeks test at once.

Since there was no updates tonight it looks like the wed test is out, wonder what the schedule this week will be.

[Shuichi]

And now for the . I Guess this will mark the point where I lose all those
few who were still with me after my first post. What a short-lived existence.

Believe it or not, I am actually old enough to remember a time when there
was no internet. Yes, I am *that* old. For better understanding, imagine me
as an Adamantoise.

In those days, we had nothing that told us how to beat a certain boss, or
how to finish a certain quest in our 8-Bit-console* adventures. And most of
all: no parser to disenchant the wonder of acquiring a glimmering sword of
unknown awesomeness into a pile of numbers, comparison tables, and
Damage increases on a rainy day when facing north-west.

Even during the first year of FFXI, there was sort of a Golden Age of myth
and weird experimentation, as no "best" builds had been firmly established.
It was only during the later years of the game when it became apparent that
SE had underestimated the power of perfectionists, which by countless
hours, days and weeks of diligent research would set the cookie-cutter
standards of the present.

If there is one single wish I have for FFXIV, it is this:

"Please, Sage Sundi, be as weird and cute as you look, and give us the
possibility to be really, really unique. Not just closer to the perfect cookie.
Bring back the Fantasy."



*The storage capacity of a modern-day computer divided by the number of
visible stars on a cloudless night.

I too would like to see more variety. I guess we'll see how it unfolds as the game goes on.

[King Zuca]

And now for the . I Guess this will mark the point where I lose all those
few who were still with me after my first post. What a short-lived existence.

Believe it or not, I am actually old enough to remember a time when there
was no internet. Yes, I am *that* old. For better understanding, imagine me
as an Adamantoise.

In those days, we had nothing that told us how to beat a certain boss, or
how to finish a certain quest in our 8-Bit-console* adventures. And most of
all: no parser to disenchant the wonder of acquiring a glimmering sword of
unknown awesomeness into a pile of numbers, comparison tables, and
Damage increases on a rainy day when facing north-west.

Even during the first year of FFXI, there was sort of a Golden Age of myth
and weird experimentation, as no "best" builds had been firmly established.
It was only during the later years of the game when it became apparent that
SE had underestimated the power of perfectionists, which by countless
hours, days and weeks of diligent research would set the cookie-cutter
standards of the present.

If there is one single wish I have for FFXIV, it is this:

"Please, Sage Sundi, be as weird and cute as you look, and give us the
possibility to be really, really unique. Not just closer to the perfect cookie.
Bring back the Fantasy."



*The storage capacity of a modern-day computer divided by the number of
visible stars on a cloudless night.

i too would like to be unique in some way, but no matter how unique you are, its going to boil down to how GOOD you are no matter how you slice it. say for instance you go a totaly different route then most other people and find a build that is very unique. if you perform well with that build, you WILL influence other players to follow in your foot steps, single handedly lowering your uniqueness anyways. if you suck with your unique build, you will become the poster child for what NOT to do in the game. yea you will remain unique, but it will be that "kid-who-sits-in-front-of-the-bus-and-only-talks-to-the bus-driver" unique.

its impossible to get around that. no matter how many options SE gives us upon release, there will be trend-setters so to speak, and people will follow them.

[Eaglestrike]

It's pretty much impossible for there to be "viable" and "unique" in an MMO. Even with the profession changes in WoW to make almost all the professions equal everyone heavily considers BS/JC to be the absolute best profession combo anyone can be. It will account for less than a 1% difference for any class in their overall stats, but whenever someone asks what professions they're told BS/JC only. And most of the professions are pretty damn close. And that's with the professions turning into fairly boring enhancements, like each one granting the exact same stat bonus'. The "unique" professions, tailoring and engineering, are extensively tested to see if they can possibly compete and last I checked generally don't quite cut it.

I think the way attributes alone work already allows a certain amount of uniqueness. Granted it'll all end up being like talent trees in WoW in that if you're a level 70 pugilist you have 150 str, 100vit, 120dex, etc. but I think it already allows a good bit more flexibility than most other MMO's.

[Reiryuu]

I don't really think that's true.

For instance, take a look at the potential for the battle regiment system. What if this is not so much for smaller encounters per se, but it shines more in larger boss fights?

What if I could use these battle regiments to weaken the monster to certain abilities or styles, but I could not do this back to back to back. Thus, the more varied the members of my team/guild/etc were, the more options we would have and the better we could do that encounter.

It's a little early to close your mind on the possibility that things may not be all as cut out as they were in FFXI. Sure, I may be an optimist on this, but if you go in expecting a certain thing so intently, you will end up bending things to fulfill that expectation even if they weren't actually meant to.

[Hyan]

They will be as cut out as in every other MMO in existence.

It's not just some "FFXI" thing. It'll always happen, sooner or later, no matter what battle regimens they implement.

[Lucavi]

I don't really think that's true.

For instance, take a look at the potential for the battle regiment system. What if this is not so much for smaller encounters per se, but it shines more in larger boss fights?

What if I could use these battle regiments to weaken the monster to certain abilities or styles, but I could not do this back to back to back. Thus, the more varied the members of my team/guild/etc were, the more options we would have and the better we could do that encounter.

It's a little early to close your mind on the possibility that things may not be all as cut out as they were in FFXI. Sure, I may be an optimist on this, but if you go in expecting a certain thing so intently, you will end up bending things to fulfill that expectation even if they weren't actually meant to.

Sounds like you're talking about Blizzard's "Bring the Player, not the class", where every class has something useful to bring, be they unique buffs and skills to bring to a raid, just about the largest (controlled) group setting in the game.

It works to a point, but also has its flaws. Some people complain of homogenizing of skills so that one class isn't specifically brought over another. This happens because people will eventually figure out the easiest way to get all of the major buffs between the fewest people possible, and then will simply stack more of the "best" class to fill the raid. Look at it as simply stacking more blms back in the day, or currently stacking more sams or KC drks.

There's also the problem that each class (job) has three specs, but people will theorycraft until they find the best one (assuming at least 2 of 3 specs are for DPS) and will simply stick with that class. Take hunters, for example. Their Pet spec, beastmastery, was all but ignored after the second expansion because it fell behind in DPS to the other specs. Hence, there was no more "uniqueness", because everyone just switched to the other two specs. Before that, everyone just used BM or Marksman spec, ignoring Survival, so really, there never was any uniqueness there. People just used what was the strongest, unless they were either stubborn and loved their particular spec, or they were somehow allowed to go another spec in their raiding guilds.

It would be no different in FF. You'll always have a small handful of people that want to do things their own way and walk their own path, but the majority of people in a MMO spend too much time in the game to bullshit around with a weak class/spec when it comes time to spend money and effort on killing some big boss or surviving some encounter.

You didn't see any army of beastmasters fighting in RoTZ, did you? How about CoP? ToAU? Hell, WoTG?!!

Square is a company that very rarely balances jobs, and people flock to flavor of the month.

Blizzard is a company that constantly tries to balance jobs, and people still flock to flavor of the month.

Its not the developers, its people, and more accurately, human nature.

There will never be true uniqueness in a MMO as long as people seek to be the strongest thing in the game and seek to kill things as quickly and efficiently as possible within that game.

[Riza]

Sounds like you're talking about Blizzard's "Bring the Player, not the class", where every class has something useful to bring, be they unique buffs and skills to bring to a raid, just about the largest (controlled) group setting in the game.

It works to a point, but also has its flaws. Some people complain of homogenizing of skills so that one class isn't specifically brought over another. This happens because people will eventually figure out the easiest way to get all of the major buffs between the fewest people possible, and then will simply stack more of the "best" class to fill the raid. Look at it as simply stacking more blms back in the day, or currently stacking more sams or KC drks.

There's also the problem that each class (job) has three specs, but people will theorycraft until they find the best one (assuming at least 2 of 3 specs are for DPS) and will simply stick with that class. Take hunters, for example. Their Pet spec, beastmastery, was all but ignored after the second expansion because it fell behind in DPS to the other specs. Hence, there was no more "uniqueness", because everyone just switched to the other two specs. Before that, everyone just used BM or Marksman spec, ignoring Survival, so really, there never was any uniqueness there. People just used what was the strongest, unless they were either stubborn and loved their particular spec, or they were somehow allowed to go another spec in their raiding guilds.

It would be no different in FF. You'll always have a small handful of people that want to do things their own way and walk their own path, but the majority of people in a MMO spend too much time in the game to bullshit around with a weak class/spec when it comes time to spend money and effort on killing some big boss or surviving some encounter.

You didn't see any army of beastmasters fighting in RoTZ, did you? How about CoP? ToAU? Hell, WoTG?!!

Square is a company that very rarely balances jobs, and people flock to flavor of the month.

Blizzard is a company that constantly tries to balance jobs, and people still flock to flavor of the month.

Its not the developers, its people, and more accurately, human nature.

There will never be true uniqueness in a MMO as long as people seek to be the strongest thing in the game and seek to kill things as quickly and efficiently as possible within that game.

This is all very true. My problem with 11 right now is I could not decide what healing/ support job I wanted to do because so many are contriversial EXCEPT RDM AND BRD. -_- I wanted to play DNC originally, but so many people dislike it cause its not COOKIE CUTTER or w/e, so I went with WHM. OH BUT WAIT!! WHM gets out done by RDM for merit parties and other things, so how am I suppose to get merit points on my WHM if thats the only job I want to play. So then I thought SCH. Same thing and it doesn't have Haste...so other downfall. Then I thought, I hate RDM. I hate it so much I will never play it because I feel forced to play it to be needed.

I like to play jobs based on their usefulness, scarcity, challenge, and uniqueness .(as with DNC, it healed and buffed in an interesting way). RDM turned me off a lot because everyone I know has RDM 75 or mains RDM. :\ I mean jesus christ! >< If 14 turns out like this, where one mage class/ support class rules over I will be so mad... I can't play the game how I want to because others are asshats and can't do things differently based on what is available. :\ I hope this mind set changes. Also, I hope SE thinks about how they make jobs and classes a little better. I don't want another DNC. (I loved this job so much, but even my good friend told me he wouldn't take me in end game stuff..)

I'm now currently lvling BRD because it's needed at all levels and I don't have to worry about not getting a party. /pout (RDM is not an option for me and never will be. I REFUSE to play it.)

Oh well, here is to hopes for 14 to be a bit more "balanced".

[Spira]

I wonder why does the manual say...

* Only those participating in a levequest can attack the targets indicated in the quest objectives.

then? I mean it also says that you can't see other people's mobs, but what could this statement imply in that case?

late reply..

i think that line u mention from the manual has got to do with party members who join AFTER flagging a guildleve, cos I don't think people who just join ur party afterwards can simply attack a guildleve mob or get automatically flagged by it.

the line I was referring to was this tho

Finally, levequest targets can only be seen by members participating in the quest, so players will never have to worry about their quarry being snatched up by the occasional passerby.

which has more definite parameters than the line above.. but i bet they go together.

[Lucavi]

late reply..

i think that line u mention from the manual has got to do with party members who join AFTER flagging a guildleve, cos I don't think people who just join ur party afterwards can simply attack a guildleve mob or get automatically flagged by it.

the line I was referring to was this tho

Finally, levequest targets can only be seen by members participating in the quest, so players will never have to worry about their quarry being snatched up by the occasional passerby.

which has more definite parameters than the line above.. but i bet they go together.

Makes it sound like so you can't just have some high level beat on your mobs for you and finish your quests in seconds for you.