FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread II: Let's Speculate the Speculations

[Siatdiat]

Ack, did I miss that? Been following the thread pretty closely and I know they talked about crafting-- the process but I don't remember anything about mentioning the resource cost itself... will go back and look.

Hmm... yeah I suppose the main thing being pointed out is its more involved then just using a crystal and some ingredients and waiting for an explosion. Ghostsix I think has been most regularly offering the most info from alpha, of course I dont want to discount anyone elses input. Maybe he'll pipe in when he has a chance.

Personally I'm hoping there is more of a curve this time. Lower crafting materials are very common, to the point that they arent very valuable on AH but since they are so common even casual players can spend an hour or so farming mats to get a few skill levels. The final levels should offer the best recipes and use the rarest mats. A slow grade from common at 1-10 to very rare at the highest levels. Another great thing would be to have certain slots for classes that arent really geared by quests/guildleves/etc. that would be provided by crafters. This is the part where my apparently unpopular opinion comes in. If crafted items once equipped cant be sold, there will always be a desire for lower level gear to be crafted. I could see people using their guildleve reward gil on crafted gear from lower level crafters, or friends leveling different classes trading items they made. etc etc etc /endrant

[Siatdiat]

While I agree with you, I truly hope they won't make gil or gear so mundane that the incentive to group disappears. If gil is so easy to get, and higher level solo leves reward you with same (or better) gear than what you could currently get with 6-15 people, players will just solo few ranks more and then solo the easy leve with comparable rewards than try to group up and get the "better" low level armor at the right rank.

At some point the exp required would increase so much that wouldn't be viable anymore, but it would be sad to see grouping take a backseat for the first 40-50 ranks.

Hmm, players who "choose" to speed through have that option. Players like me who enjoy gearing up as you go and being able to do shit people say you have to be level 30 for at like, 25, I will put the time into doing things with larger groups for better rewards. I dont doubt you will put the same effort into doing so. The thing is, you will have that option, and other players will have their options as well. I dont think someone who speeds through is destined to suck at max level. Some will suck regardless of how they progress, not everyone is great at any given game. Good players will be good, bad players will be bad, and thats one thing we dont have to speculate on. lol.

[Hyan]

Hmm, players who "choose" to speed through have that option. Players like me who enjoy gearing up as you go and being able to do shit people say you have to be level 30 for at like, 25, I will put the time into doing things with larger groups for better rewards. I dont doubt you will put the same effort into doing so. The thing is, you will have that option, and other players will have their options as well. I dont think someone who speeds through is destined to suck at max level. Some will suck regardless of how they progress, not everyone is great at any given game. Good players will be good, bad players will be bad, and thats one thing we dont have to speculate on. lol.

Yeah that's what's going to happen, most likely. I just hope that leveling won't be so fast, that instead of looking for a group to get the best possible gear at 25, it would be significantly easier to just solo to ~30 range first in few hours, then do a solo leve that rewards you with gear equal or better to the "best" rank 25 gear.

Some sort of scaling would be nice. Let's say if you go and do the level 25 5 star leve, you get gear that is better than what you could get by soloing for at least 10 ranks, if not more. And when it comes to 5 star leves, it should last few levels (5 or so?) or maybe different level range leves would get you different kind of equipment, so they don't overlap with each other.

Basically something that ensures that if you go and get the best gear for your rank, it's worth the hassle and if you don't care, it won't hinder your progress significantly. Enough to make a noticeable difference but not up to the point that soloing would be impossible without them.

[Spira]

I wonder if there's some kind of cap to each guildleve in that case?

Like, if you try to accept guildleve and Then invite the high level friend, that wouldn't work. And if there's a "phys. level 10" cap on the quest or something, the high level friend wouldn't be able to help then either (or would be synced to correct level range).

Assuming if you join the group you'll be able to see the leve mobs regardless of having the quest flagged.. if that's what that line means.

i'm thinking it may have to do with the moment when you flag the guildleve..
cos you get to choose difficulty (by number of people), and maybe that difficulty rating is skewed according to the highest lv in your party, or something. then again, thatd be weird too since leves themselves have recommended level ranges.

unless SE wants to make it so u can still do this guildleve at lv50 (when game release) and still find difficulty in doing it, i don't see why they won't let other members target the mobs already, since they'll be cakewalk to a high leveled party sooner or later.

[Croy]

So far there is no reason to assume you will need to group up to exp in the same manner as FFXI.

People in the alpha has leveled as high as 15-18 pretty much solo and in a fairly short space of time (relative to FFXI) considering the few tests, the mob/lag/crashing issues etc.

From my experiences so far, grouping is about rewards, not exp.

It's alpha, they probably want people to level up quicker then they plan to have at release so people can test stuff in a small time spans. They could very easily make grouping EXP better depending on the flow EXP you get and how much it takes to level up (they commented giving skill ups for guild leves completions and obviously that isn't in there now). They always wanted solo EXP to work and make people feel like you are getting stuff done, but its not going to be exactly like this come release (at least unlikely to be), they already said after the next wipe they are going to test a new advancement rate.

[Loaar]

It's alpha, they probably want people to level up quicker then they plan to have at release so people can test stuff in a small time spans. They could very easily make grouping EXP better depending on the flow EXP you get and how much it takes to level up (they commented giving skill ups for guild leves completions and obviously that isn't in there now). They always wanted solo EXP to work and make people feel like you are getting stuff done, but its not going to be exactly like this come release (at least unlikely to be), they already said after the next wipe they are going to test a new advancement rate.

The fact that they are planning to test two different "growth" rates makes me think that they haven't sped up the exp gain in any way. If they wanted to see what leveling speed is like for various systems it defeats the purpose to have an artificially inflated one then add a real one.

EDIT: From leveling up in the alpha so far as well it doesn't seem to be too fast, it seems fairly natural growth.

I already posted what I thought the skill up for guild leves was and it is already there if I'm right.

I assumed that this meant you would skillup (your weapon/tool levels) while completing guildleves since they would be roughly aimed at your current level of advancement rather than "rewarding" you at the end.

For example, if your looking to raise your sword skill from 6-7, you would need to find mobs that are high enough, killing lower level mobs probably won't give you any skill points. Doing a guildleve where the recommended level was DoW 5+ would provide mobs that would definitely give you mobs that would let you skill up, thus removing the need to manually go hunting for mobs in the right level range.

Crafting/gathering would be the same. Mining a low level point would likely not give you skill points, but doing a leve that is appropriate to your skill level would direct you to mining points that would skill you up.

[BlackheartX]

Yeah that's what's going to happen, most likely. I just hope that leveling won't be so fast, that instead of looking for a group to get the best possible gear at 25, it would be significantly easier to just solo to ~30 range first in few hours, then do a solo leve that rewards you with gear equal or better to the "best" rank 25 gear.

Some sort of scaling would be nice. Let's say if you go and do the level 25 5 star leve, you get gear that is better than what you could get by soloing for at least 10 ranks, if not more. And when it comes to 5 star leves, it should last few levels (5 or so?) or maybe different level range leves would get you different kind of equipment, so they don't overlap with each other.

Basically something that ensures that if you go and get the best gear for your rank, it's worth the hassle and if you don't care, it won't hinder your progress significantly. Enough to make a noticeable difference but not up to the point that soloing would be impossible without them.

I like this idea. Nothing is worse than worthless gear lasting for two seconds only to replaced with some lame reskin of the same piece you had.

[Khamsin]

After reading the last page or so it seems that people are assuming guildleves are like quests from other MMO's. While thats right in a fashion, there are a few differences.

Leves do not provide an exp reward at this stage. Only mobs do but that is possibly an alpha restriction.

I don't know that they ever will. I doubt there will be quest-based xping options available, like WoW has. Quests as a significant source of xp is an unusual concept in general. I'm guessing the main source of xp and levelling will be getting a party and killing mobs.

And yeah, they said you can solo, but I'm sure partying will yield the best xp/hour.

[Hyan]

The fact that they are planning to test two different "growth" rates makes me think that they haven't sped up the exp gain in any way. If they wanted to see what leveling speed is like for various systems it defeats the purpose to have an artificially inflated one then add a real one.

EDIT: From leveling up in the alpha so far as well it doesn't seem to be too fast, it seems fairly natural growth.

I already posted what I thought the skill up for guild leves was and it is already there if I'm right.

Maybe the first "mode" has nothing to do with testing the growth rate? If SE wants people to experience the first 20 ranks within the fairly short testing timeframe (especially with login problems and server crashes) then speeding up the growth rate would be ideal.

I mean it could be what you say, but it's clearly not the only possible option.

[Loaar]

Its possible Hyan, but I doubt it for a few reasons.

Firstly, they didn't know that they were going to experience so many stability problems. They have said a few times now that the amount of concurrent logins and server crashes are beyond what they were expecting.

Also, in the interview it said this:

Regarding that character growth, Tanaka said to expect character data to get wiped out mid way through the alpha test. The reason for this is that they have two different patterns for character growth speed that they want to try out. Once they've gathered enough data for the current pattern, they'll wipe out the player data and try out the second pattern.

That sounds to me like we are currently testing the first pattern and would be testing the second pattern once they have enough data.

On top of this, especially considering the testing windows are short, SE would be gathering data on a great many things during every test, well beyond the things they are asking for feedback for. Leveling speed would be one of these, and its not something they are likely to ask for feedback from testers on since we lack any real basis for the feedback we could provide.

SE would be tracking numbers on a whole range of metrics and testers can only relate to their one personal experience.

[Cesaria]

More than anything else I think they'll do a full character wipe to get people to test the character creation when that gets re-done (look at all the screenshots posted with the "this is still under development" note along the bottom). What better way to get that tested than to force everyone to go back through it again?!

[Gokulo]

More than anything else I think they'll do a full character wipe to get people to test the character creation when that gets re-done (look at all the screenshots posted with the "this is still under development" note along the bottom). What better way to get that tested than to force everyone to go back through it again?!

I don't even think a wipe would be needed for that. When they add the rest of the races and all the creation options people would themselves would go back and create new characters just to see how it works.
Doesn't matter tough, since before we will see the full character creator there will already be one wipe at least.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by meonline
I assumed that this meant you would skillup (your weapon/tool levels) while completing guildleves since they would be roughly aimed at your current level of advancement rather than "rewarding" you at the end.

For example, if your looking to raise your sword skill from 6-7, you would need to find mobs that are high enough, killing lower level mobs probably won't give you any skill points. Doing a guildleve where the recommended level was DoW 5+ would provide mobs that would definitely give you mobs that would let you skill up, thus removing the need to manually go hunting for mobs in the right level range.

Crafting/gathering would be the same. Mining a low level point would likely not give you skill points, but doing a leve that is appropriate to your skill level would direct you to mining points that would skill you up.

Well, yes generally that's kinda how FFXI works, but what I was thinking is that maybe, SE would REWARD you with skill EXP/PTS, towards your weapon/tool.

For instance, if your job is GLD, maybe there's a GL tailored to that job and/or specific weapon. You begin the GL, complete your GL and your reward will be 1200 weapon/tool EXP, instead of gil or gear.

Its kinda like how FFXI weapon skill quests work. You get your weapon, you perform required tasks to "unlock" it, then you beat some kind of NM to use the weaponskill.

But with FFXIV, you choose the GL that may reward you with specific exp towards a given weapon skill, maybe weapon EXP, or maybe even both?

I dunno, just an idea...

[brand]

I don't even think a wipe would be needed for that. When they add the rest of the races and all the creation options people would themselves would go back and create new characters just to see how it works.
Doesn't matter tough, since before we will see the full character creator there will already be one wipe at least.

Aion did this in their beta tests, limiting play to one or the other race choices. I didn't start till beta 5, but from the changes post-launch, and the fact that it was a language port to begin with, I doubt they used it to test pacing.

@siat, CoP was a line for many people who played for hnm. Consider from the 3 and sky, they all of which dropped something around 6-7 items for your group of (usually) 24 or so, and as I recall, 2 abjs per kill, some craft mats and 1-2 generic, not-entirely-useless equip.

Contrast this to the 3 wyrms of CoP, who all dropped some worthless flavor item (except caster striders, though by and large are only a convenience item and not practical in most fights) and barely enough crafting material for 1 item, and this is to feed a (then) much larger group of people necessary to control the adds that naturally spawn around the wyrm and to combat the much stronger regen. The people I played with only did it once or twice for the titles and told the bards to f off and desynth subligars if they wanted shair chest.

Say what you will about wanting the experience and not caring about the drops, but be realistic about why you would ever revisit those fights.

[Khamsin]

Well, yes generally that's kinda how FFXI works, but what I was thinking is that maybe, SE would REWARD you with skill EXP/PTS, towards your weapon/tool.

For instance, if your job is GLD, maybe there's a GL tailored to that job and/or specific weapon. You begin the GL, complete your GL and your reward will be 1200 weapon/tool EXP, instead of gil or gear.

Its kinda like how FFXI weapon skill quests work. You get your weapon, you perform required tasks to "unlock" it, then you beat some kind of NM to use the weaponskill.

But with FFXIV, you choose the GL that may reward you with specific exp towards a given weapon skill, maybe weapon EXP, or maybe even both?

I dunno, just an idea...

There's already a mechanism to increase your physical or weapon xp, and that's killing mobs. I doubt they'd add bonus xp or skill points as quest rewards, or people would just spam guildleves as a means to level.

[Hyan]

Now if they actually increased the leve difficulty as you level up...

"What?! First I don't get any exp from the quest and now I have to Work for the rewards too!? what the fuck!"

[Lucavi]

wow. i honestly must say, some of the most fun and entertaining moments for me in ffxi were the insane mob trains people would bring to some zones. very few things were funnier then watching 20 goblins lay waste to everyone in the dunes to and from wherever they were chained from. classic.

Exactly. Valk trains will live forever in my heart. There was nothing better than having the power to help that little Taru scuttling away from 30 gobs and a pugil, yet doing nothing but watching and waiting for that sweet level down sound.

Good times!

[BlackheartX]

I sincerely hope SE gets creative with Guild Leves. I really don't want to go from "Smack 20 Rats" to "Smack 20 Bigger Rats" with the GL system. Something cool like the Gessho fight.

[Hyan]

Something cool like Assaults...

Apkallu Seizure and Blitzkrieg leves :Q_

[BlackheartX]

Something cool like Assaults...

Or that