FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread II: Let's Speculate the Speculations

[Lucavi]

I dunno, I think a lot was wrong with Aion and Warhammer: namely, sticking way too close to other games in an attempt to somehow beat them by doing what they do, better.

There's more than one way to do a MMO, its just up to the company to decide what to integrate from rivals and what to self-improve on. Aion integrated waaay too much from WoW, other Korean MMOs, and other F2P MMOs. Its a hodgepodge MMO without its own voice as a result.

If nothing else, I can say that FFXI had its own, unique voice. It was grating at times, and sometimes sung off-key, but it was unique in of itself.

[Hyan]

Well yep, that's what's basically their downfall.. but from technical standpoint, I think they did fairly well.. I can't remember having any big gripes about anything, it just didn't try enough to be different.

And while I can't be sure, I think if they tried to be different they still would have failed had they tried to do everything. Being able to just copy/paste everything from other games certainly gave them the opportunity to give everything to the players (mainly PvP and E, lots of character customization et cetera) but when you start making up new features, things inevitably get more complicated.

[Jinko]

And show's how horrible a concept that is in execution. Same with World of Warcraft. When a MMO seeks to do both well, they usually fail at both, sometimes more on one said then another. Either their balance for pvp is horribly done, or they lack any PvE for end game because they concentrated on balancing PvP too much.

I would much rather have FF14 do PvE and only PvE then maybe later down the road add a little pvp events for flavor.

How did it even become about player kill PVP ?

You can still have PVP (competion style) in PVE and it doesn't need anymore balancing because you aren't killing anyone, I thought Warhamer had interesting public quests where the loot was distrubuted by who did the most damage.

I hate PVP but if it were more competive and less about ganking and killing people I would probably see things differently.

I think Aion failed because it didn't have much in the way of PVE content, most PVP style games lose their shine after a couple months.

[Hyan]

Yeah, it doesn't have to be just about killing people.

I always had this idea that it would be cool if different linkshells could "compete" about claiming HNM's in XI by making Boyahda some kinda instance and to get claim you'd have to get to the Aery as fast as possible while killing everything on the way. The fastest to get there would get the claim as well.

But yah that's just one example.

[Gadritan]

I always had this idea that it would be cool if different linkshells could "compete" about claiming HNM's in XI by making Boyahda some kinda instance and to get claim you'd have to get to the Aery as fast as possible while killing everything on the way. The fastest to get there would get the claim as well.

Uh...that's pretty much been happening for years, just minus the instanced part. Just results in flee tools etc.

[Hyan]

Hm, I wouldn't say it works like that currently. You go to Aery and camp the mob, and the competition happens there, in a small area, where you just wait up to 3 hours.

But in my example there wouldn't be any camping. Whoever gets to Aery first automatically claims the dragon. And to "win", you have to kill everything on the way as well.

It's just one example of how to make PvE based PvP.

[Gadritan]

Hm, I wouldn't say it works like that currently. You go to Aery and camp the mob, and the competition happens there, in a small area, where you just wait up to 3 hours.

But in my example there wouldn't be any camping. Whoever gets to Aery first automatically claims the dragon. And to "win", you have to kill everything on the way as well.

It's just one example of how to make PvE based PvP.

I was referencing the mad dashes to different HNM after maintenance, or if everyone is camping D7 KB and a D1 Faf pops with nothing but mules in DA etc. Plus there's the Wyrms and Khim, etc that no one really "camps" (the ones that do fail and therefor don't count). Maybe a mule or two that can hold till everyone gets there, but it's still a mad dash once they pop. I always kept some powder boots and sprinter's etc on me for shit like that. DI and SW are pretty much nothing but a foot race really.

Come to think of it though, those moments really are some of my fondest memories from HNMLS. /shrug.

The kill everything to win would just give the advantage to LSs that hurl bodies at shit, instead of smaller skill based LSs as was mentioned previously. Unless of course it was scaled down based on the size of your group.

[Hyan]

Yeah well I'm not saying it's a perfect idea, or even good one, it's not that I've thought about it much. With proper tweaking it could work out though, and I agree that the HNM system already has that competitive PvE feeling to it. It's just an example of how it could work. I doubt we'll get anything like that in XIV, but some kind of competitive PvE would definitely be cool.

[Khamsin]

While I'm sure FFXIV will have significant differences from FFXI, I just hope it's closer to FFXI than to, say, WoW or Aion. I want another FF MMO, not a FF-themed WoW/Aion/LotRO/etc. game.

I want the "feel" of FFXI as opposed to the feel of WoW.

[Alderaan]

I'd rather just have competitive PVP, done properly. Competitive PVE should be based on the encounter, not the circumstances leading up to it. By that i mean i'd rather have an interesting mechanic that constantly changes and pushes the players to succeed. Not that i didn't enjoy competing with other LS's, i actually loved it at the time, but it's just gotten old.

[superzombie23]

While I'm sure FFXIV will have significant differences from FFXI, I just hope it's closer to FFXI than to, say, WoW or Aion. I want another FF MMO, not a FF-themed WoW/Aion/LotRO/etc. game.

I want the "feel" of FFXI as opposed to the feel of WoW.

This or I'm quitting after the first month.

[Gadritan]

While I'm sure FFXIV will have significant differences from FFXI, I just hope it's closer to FFXI than to, say, WoW or Aion. I want another FF MMO, not a FF-themed WoW/Aion/LotRO/etc. game.

I want the "feel" of FFXI as opposed to the feel of WoW.

Bewm. Exactly. I've yet to find another MMO that sucks me in like FF did.

[Vitglance]

While I'm sure FFXIV will have significant differences from FFXI, I just hope it's closer to FFXI than to, say, WoW or Aion. I want another FF MMO, not a FF-themed WoW/Aion/LotRO/etc. game.

I want the "feel" of FFXI as opposed to the feel of WoW.
This or I'm quitting after the first month.

Not to be a spoil sport,

But taking the defacto standard template of 2004 is in no way superior to taking the defacto standard template of 2010. They're both startlingly status quo maneuvers for one of the few companies out there that's still willing to experiment in spite of Hollywood level budgets.

I want a game that feels like a Final fantasy game, which means it doesn't feel like anything else.

[Kachi]

While FF does tend to try new things on a semiregular basis, there are still many qualities consistent among FF games. Much of it is lore, but there are underpinnings to the mechanics of most of these games.

Traditionally they've taken baby leaps. There'd be two or three large differences, but nearly everything else was an iteration of something that had been done before. Seems to have worked well for them for the most part, and in fact I think that after X they've deviated more and more, arguably not for the better.

[Hyan]

Traditionally they've taken baby leaps.

I'm blaming Sakaguchi for that.

But taking the defacto standard template of 2004 is in no way superior to taking the defacto standard template of 2010. They're both startlingly status quo maneuvers for one of the few companies out there that's still willing to experiment in spite of Hollywood level budgets.

Depends how overused said templates are, and what kind of differences are made to said template.

Can't also argue about preferences, imo. It's no superior, but people can like something and dislike something else, for no apparent reason.

[Jinko]

11 is probably as far removed from Final Fantasy as you can get, it has game staples like summons, chocobos and a guy called Cid but they could quite have easily remove said things and called the game something else and nobody would have been the wiser.

[Lucavi]

11 is probably as far removed from Final Fantasy as you can get, it has game staples like summons, chocobos and a guy called Cid but they could quite have easily remove said things and called the game something else and nobody would have been the wiser.

Perhaps initially, but not after FFXII. Hell, Balthier's gun animation is the exact same thing as a Male Elvaan.

[Ae Cha]

I think it'll be best if most of FFXIV's endgame is done instanced, but I hope they at least keep a few overworld competitive HNMs. It's a shitty thing to base your entire endgame off of, but it's still fun in moderation. I was pretty sad to see overworld bosses get phased out of WoW, doing the green dragons with all their griefing and shit talking was a lot of fun. The whole instanced claim race seems sort of contrived when the classic overworld dash works just as well.

[King Zuca]

11 is probably as far removed from Final Fantasy as you can get, it has game staples like summons, chocobos and a guy called Cid but they could quite have easily remove said things and called the game something else and nobody would have been the wiser.

could'nt you do that with pretty much every modern final fantasy game?

[Kachi]

Perhaps initially, but not after FFXII. Hell, Balthier's gun animation is the exact same thing as a Male Elvaan.

XI was a huge deviation. However, as an MMO, it has closed that gap somewhat throughout its development (though it's fair to point out that being an MMO was a huge deviation itself). I'm not sure how fair it is to compare a later title to a previous title, but I guess you could also argue that XI isn't finished anyway.

XII was also a huge deviation, but it retained qualities of XI within the world of FFTA.