FFXIV Random Speculation/Question thread II: Let's Speculate the Speculations

[Vacht]

I have been trying to follow this thread pretty close but I either have missed it or cant find it. Is there any kind of "death penalty" currently in game? exp loss money loss ect?

Also... are people seriously advocating for threat mechanics and mob AI that allows mobs to go after weak players or low hp players ect? Aion tried this on some mobs and it fails horribly.

Imo FFXI has some of the worst threat mechanics in any mmo I have played, and from the sounds of 14 so far it is even worse. While I am all for a better AI system, make it so it is the tanks job to counter abilities/moves ect, dont bring it down to the simple, if your fighting X mob as Y job expect to die alot.

I am very excited about 14... but this one little thing may cause me to give it up quickly if it is a widespread AI "ability".

Ib4 "It's just an alpha"

You have 5 minutes of weakness after death, thats it. so far..

[Katlan]

The speculation in this thread has become beyond retarded

[Agito]

The speculation in this thread has become beyond retarded

You're even more retarded than the speculation in this thread by posting such a comment. If you don't like what you're reading then don't read it at all, it is a speculation thread so if you don't like speculation then gtfo of this thread...

[Vacht]

The speculation in this thread is beyond retarded

ftfy

[Vitglance]

I wonder if there will be collision detection for mobs/players in combat so that you can actually like build a wall of tanks around someone who is known to get hate (IE the healer) to protect them.

This has been done before, actually.
Warhammer Online.

It just doesn't have enough of an affect on tanking to make it a truly interesting innovation, at least not all by itself in a PvE setting. It's more of the same, 'stand in one place and pop abilities' rigamarole, except that instead of standing anywhere you stand in one place in particular (usually a choke point).

Not the worst idea I've ever seen, just kinda' meh.

[Destinye]

I have been trying to follow this thread pretty close but I either have missed it or cant find it. Is there any kind of "death penalty" currently in game? exp loss money loss ect?

Also... are people seriously advocating for threat mechanics and mob AI that allows mobs to go after weak players or low hp players ect? Aion tried this on some mobs and it fails horribly.

Imo FFXI has some of the worst threat mechanics in any mmo I have played, and from the sounds of 14 so far it is even worse. While I am all for a better AI system, make it so it is the tanks job to counter abilities/moves ect, dont bring it down to the simple, if your fighting X mob as Y job expect to die alot.

I am very excited about 14... but this one little thing may cause me to give it up quickly if it is a widespread AI "ability".

Ib4 "It's just an alpha"

Most Korean MMO developers fail at..just about everything complex. NCsoft would fail at programming a pet that can speak.

There is indeed a death penalty. FFXI's hate system was actually one of the better of most MMOs, it actually existed and can be controlled, very few MMOs can allow you to directly control the hate thrown around. It only seemed bad because of the people who don't know the hate line nor how to control it properly, logically if you're a BLM and spamming your happy little ass off you should expect to die sooner or later. I don't think FFXI even had the typical "threat" design as it was changed for the various enmity systems FFXI has, most MMO's threat system only allow you to force the monster to run (which almost never works because it's typically broken) or to force it off of you for x time.

Just about everything comes with a risk.

If you're a mage and try to fight a titan monster solo, should you be able to live or should you die? If you're basically weaker than someone more suited to take hits of course you'll die more than the other classes, especially those designed to take a beating. So it's actually good if monsters are smart enough to go after the one about to die because it could hinder the overall performance of the party which is what they're supposed to be trying to do.. and if they're smart enough to know that the killing off someone with low HP will hurt the party..why not go for it? I sure as hell would go for the kill of someone I see hunched over bleeding from every opening. Basic instinct.

So whether what we experienced in testing is going to happen or not or just the many alpha quirks, it would be nice, we even see this in FFXI with the Qiqirin's, some will run away to get backup and the ranger classes will try their best to stay at a distance if possible.

[Bombadil]

Most Korean MMO developers fail at..just about everything complex. NCsoft would fail at programming a pet that can speak.

There is indeed a death penalty. FFXI's hate system was actually one of the better of most MMOs, it actually existed and can be controlled, very few MMOs can allow you to directly control the hate thrown around. It only seemed bad because of the people who don't know the hate line nor how to control it properly, logically if you're a BLM and spamming your happy little ass off you should expect to die sooner or later. I don't think FFXI even had the typical "threat" design as it was changed for the various enmity systems FFXI has, most MMO's threat system only allow you to force the monster to run (which almost never works because it's typically broken) or to force it off of you for x time.

Just about everything comes with a risk.

If you're a mage and try to fight a titan monster solo, should you be able to live or should you die? If you're basically weaker than someone more suited to take hits of course you'll die more than the other classes, especially those designed to take a beating. So it's actually good if monsters are smart enough to go after the one about to die because it could hinder the overall performance of the party which is what they're supposed to be trying to do.. and if they're smart enough to know that the killing off someone with low HP will hurt the party..why not go for it? I sure as hell would go for the kill of someone I see hunched over bleeding from every opening. Basic instinct.

So whether what we experienced in testing is going to happen or not or just the many alpha quirks, it would be nice, we even see this in FFXI with the Qiqirin's, some will run away to get backup and the ranger classes will try their best to stay at a distance if possible.

We will just have to disagree on what FFXI is and what we hope FF14 to be then.

Earlier Vacht posted that the only penalty is 5 min of weakness. Is this the death penalty that you speak of?

[Katlan]

You're even more retarded than the speculation in this thread by posting such a comment. If you don't like what you're reading then don't read it at all, it is a speculation thread so if you don't like speculation then gtfo of this thread...

lol

[Destinye]

We will just have to disagree on what FFXI is and what we hope FF14 to be then.

Earlier Vacht posted that the only penalty is 5 min of weakness. Is this the death penalty that you speak of?

Yep.

[Aurelius]

If you're a mage and try to fight a titan monster solo, should you be able to live or should you die? If you're basically weaker than someone more suited to take hits of course you'll die more than the other classes, especially those designed to take a beating. So it's actually good if monsters are smart enough to go after the one about to die because it could hinder the overall performance of the party which is what they're supposed to be trying to do..

I would have thought it would be better to give everyone a fighting chance to stay alive and actually play and enjoy the game instead of spending half their session in spectator mode from their corpse because they just happen to prefer playing the class that most of the mobs in the game see as a "nice, light snack."

One of the things I've yet to see is a video with what you might consider to be an actual tanking class in a group. Maybe the defensive stances of classes like gladiator and pugilist come with threat modifiers or just generally increase the chances that their target will stick to them instead of running off to roflstomp the archer with the wonky aim.

There's already an encounter in MMO land where a large group of players faces off against a large group of mobs where the mob threat AI abandons standard threat rules and instead makes decisions based on proximity, armor, and health deficit. It can be an extraordinarily frustrating fight. It can also be extremely fun...in small doses. Build an entire game around that concept and SE can kiss the validity of their "casual appeal" statement goodbye.

From the perspective of someone in a damage role, having mobs peel off based on complex threat mechanics might make things more interesting. From a tank and/or healer perspective, it could repidly devolve into a frustrating nightmare.

[Viertel]

FFXI's hate system was actually one of the better of most MMOs, it actually existed and can be controlled, very few MMOs can allow you to directly control the hate thrown around. It only seemed bad because of the people who don't know the hate line nor how to control it properly, logically if you're a BLM and spamming your happy little ass off you should expect to die sooner or later. I don't think FFXI even had the typical "threat" design as it was changed for the various enmity systems FFXI has, most MMO's threat system only allow you to force the monster to run (which almost never works because it's typically broken) or to force it off of you for x time.

I seriously fail to see how FFXI had one of the better hate systems. It was very nice sounding on paper, until the whole "I am a tank. I must take the hits to defend my squishy people... except I lose hate when I take hits." throws it all out the window. The only thing FFXI hate system does is endless frustrate newer players that are honestly trying to learn the game mechanics, and don't understand why they are losing hate (even when throwing what they can at the mob). I can't ever, ever, ever, think of one instance in which a new player learns "taking damage = losing hate" and thinking "That's good!".

The fact that +enmity and -enmity had to be added to gear to give headroom on encounters should be a damn clear sign that the system wasn't working correctly to begin with. If it *were* then the actual +/- enmity would be a moot point and wouldn't even be used. To be honest, aside from the concept of a *FEW* abilities with spike hate that diminishes over time, the whole "hate decay" always seemed beyond retarded to me. It just screams of another attempt of adding complexity to a game, but not adding any *DEPTH* to go with that complexity.

And Square-Enix has been REALLY good at that problem.

[Vacht]

all i can think of when i come to these message boards is "damn these guys can talk about some inane shit for long periods of time."

You guys truly are bored... just like me!


new faces always stirrin shit up, then gettin banned.

and dont say its irrelevant, im speculating the speculations lol.

[Vitglance]

From the perspective of someone in a damage role, having mobs peel off based on complex threat mechanics might make things more interesting. From a tank and/or healer perspective, it could repidly devolve into a frustrating nightmare.

You know, worst case scenario, your not helpless.
Each class does natively have access to at least one defensive capability, not the mention the plethora of things you could ostensibly hijack.

We are only talking about this on a per mob family basis, which is something you know well in advance when your tackling a guildleve.
"Were doing this particular Guildleve, which means we're going to fight Marbolo. Those are vicious bastards. Better make sure I have featherstep equipped just in case'.

Okay, so maybe you don't get to tunnel vision as much as you'd like when your fighting these things. But is that really such a bad thing?

The mark of a truly great DPS has always been situational awareness. It's been kind of a shame the typical hate systems only allows them a chance to shine in this department as the rarely occurring 'emergency'. Making a thing like that a standard part of play gives an opportunity to make application of that sort of skill a commonplace expectation, and to help separate the boys from the men.

[Spira]

I seriously fail

all that we needed to know from you.

Losing hate from taking damage = hate balancing, else the only way to truly shed hate is to die. Remember that most jobs enjoy this benefits of this mechanic because they don't want hate. DDs and BLMs especially. For tanks, shedding hate means they aren't just 1 trick ponies that can spam an enmity tool and then take hits like paper, but thats ok cos they got hate >_>

If you want to add logic into it, if I can hurt you, you're less of a threat to me.

btw to the other guy.. XIV uses exactly the same kind of 'collision' mechanics as XI.

[Viertel]

all that we needed to know from you.

Losing hate from taking damage = hate balancing, else the only way to truly shed hate is to die. Remember that most jobs enjoy this benefits of this mechanic because they don't want hate. DDs and BLMs especially. For tanks, shedding hate means they aren't just 1 trick ponies that can spam an enmity tool and then take hits like paper, but thats ok cos they got hate >_>

If you want to add logic into it, if I can hurt you, you're less of a threat to me.

btw to the other guy.. XIV uses exactly the same kind of 'collision' mechanics as XI.

Sorry, you've proved nothing.

Anyway...

As far as Guildeves are concerned, I know it was stated that there's an apparently limit to the amount you can do within a certain period. I assume that's only for solo GLs, or is that a combined net total?

[Hyan]

As far as Guildeves are concerned, I know it was stated that there's an apparently limit to the amount you can do within a certain period. I assume that's only for solo GLs, or is that a combined net total?

As far as I know, it's a limit for all leves regardless of what star you choose to do them.

You can still help others with their leves though, so yeah group up and keep going.

Also, I always felt that in XIII the mobs always tried to zerg my healer/guy with the least hp, if there wasn't a tank around >_>. Just food for thought!

[Loaar]

Sorry, you've proved nothing.

Anyway...

As far as Guildeves are concerned, I know it was stated that there's an apparently limit to the amount you can do within a certain period. I assume that's only for solo GLs, or is that a combined net total?

For what its worth, I think your completely wrong about FFXI's hate system, but w/e

To answer your question, there are only a certain number of leves you can collect right now, and then you have to wait 2 RL hours before you can collect them again.

SE has said there will be limits on how many you can do in a day, but we dont know what those final limits are (AFAIK) and that doesn't stop you from participating in other peoples leves as Hyan mentioned.

[Scardydog]

Hi, I've been lurking in this thread for a while and I'd firstly like to say thanks to you all for all the great info that's coming out of the alpha.

And then I wanted to ask a quick question There's not much info about magic users, most of what I read is about melee classes. I was wondering if anyone had been playing as either Conj or Thaum. How are you finding them as classes?

I love to play magic classes and normally go support class, but I'm still worrying about the fact that you don't get mp back by resting. Does this effect the speed of your leveling, ie are you running back and forward to the crystals all the time, or are you chugging pots to regen your mana. Or am I worrying about nothing and it doesn't really effect you that much.

Lastly....I know it cheeky for a noob here to ask, but does anyone have any magic user gameplay videos that they wouldn't mind posting up.

[maldave]

As far as I know, it's a limit for all leves regardless of what star you choose to do them.

You can still help others with their leves though, so yeah group up and keep going.

Also, I always felt that in XIII the mobs always tried to zerg my healer/guy with the least hp, if there wasn't a tank around >_>. Just food for thought!

Is there a "share" leaves system in FFXIV ? For example if I have taken a leaf can I share it with someone else so that he can get reward as well ?
If you can't share then if we have both the same leaf (assuming we got same leaf) do we both then get credit on finishing the quest ? Or you have to do the quest 2x even though you both have the same leaf ? Assuming you are in the same party.

[Loaar]

Is there a "share" leaves system in FFXIV ? For example if I have taken a leaf can I share it with someone else so that he can get reward as well ?
If you can't share then if we have both the same leaf (assuming we got same leaf) do we both then get credit on finishing the quest ? Or you have to do the quest 2x even though you both have the same leaf ? Assuming you are in the same party.

At this stage there is no option to "share" a leve you have with someone else (in terms of giving it to them as well).

If you have it though, and they are in your party when you trigger it at the crystal (they most likely have to be in range as well), they automatically join you on your leve quest.

My personal experience has been that if you both have the same leve, when one of you activates it then you both complete it simultaneously, however others have reported the opposite. Maybe its dependent on the specific leve?