Arizona to illegals: GTFO.

[Lucavi]

I don't troll in General, I leave that to Kuya since he's the master.

You know there's a similar argument to yours in the extremes of feminism, called gender feminism. It's the idea that the male gender (meaning all males everywhere) oppresses the female gender (all women everywhere) out of a conspiracy against women. Andrea Dworkin is an example. They claim that all men oppress all women because men hold power and since all men are oppressors, they use that power to oppress women.

So let me ask you. Do you actively oppress women? Do you wake up in the morning and ask "how can I oppress some women today?" This is the impression I get from your posts of what you're saying about white people. Point in fact, I am white and I have never really given any thought to oppressing minorities. I dunno, I guess I just never got the memo.

I think the main problem in regards to your points is that we have an uncritical public. It is not a racial conspiracy, it's just a matter of people accepting ideas they hear simply because they seem plausible or they are in line with some predisposition the person has. They don't think critically about the ideas they hear or their own ideas, and so they just go on their way, thinking thoughts without ever thinking about thoughts.

I've read up on that line of feminist thinking, and while I personally disagree with it, I can understand someone thinking that way. I can typically understand any line of thinking, regardless of whether I agree with it. I can understand the mindset of certain rapists, but that's off-topic.

No, I don't personally wake up every morning thinking about how I can oppress women. Mostly I'm thinking of how I can appease my own.

I agree with you: we do have an uncritical public, but this is nothing new. Humans have always followed someone more proactive than themself, oftentimes regardless of whether that person made good points. Leading by fear and confusion and division is just as effective by leading by more altruistic methods.

The question is this: does my knowledge and understanding of that fact change my opinion on white people? No, it does not. I know there are plenty of reasonable whites. I know there are plenty of reasonable people of every race, class, shade, color, location, pigment, weight, height, ect. I don't even claim that my own logic is reasonable - it's understandable, but ultimately not reasonable.

Am I comfortable with this? Absolutely. I don't need to be agreed with. I am comfortable with my ultimate belief that humanity is foolish for constantly seeking to divide, whether its by made-up "races" (IE. white idiots calling other whites not white due to things like social status, money, religion, ect.) or from some WoW player with a 6k gearscore dividing himself from a close friend who has a 4.5 gearscore, simply because of the difference (both real and perceived) between them.

Whites get the bigger share of my blame because I have more interaction with them than other races. Their ideals, beliefs, actions, policies, and even their STARES have affected me more-so than those of the Chinese, or Japanese, or African, or South American.

Is my viewpoint attackable? Absolutely. Does that suddenly mean that I'm going to change it? Not at all.

Give me your worst. I'm a big boy - I can take it.

[Day]

Day is just trolling you guys

Not so fast scooter, I'm from the mountains of southwest VA. I grew up with "nigger this, nigger that, spic this, spic that". It's been embedded into my brain. It took a lot of unraveling to get over all that, but I still get pissed as fuck in line at walmart when 25 illegal mexicans buying the fruit they picked and shit with like 3 carts full in the express lane cause they can't read the sign that says 10 items or less. Can't they all go to that new mexican shop with the weird shit on the shelves down the road?

[Lucavi]

Not so fast scooter, I'm from the mountains of southwest VA. I grew up with "nigger this, nigger that, spic this, spic that".

Its like you're custom-built for the spam forums. Whoa.

[Day]

I am the spam forum.

[Lucavi]

It would seem so, what with that prestigious pedigree.

[Day]

I'm not racist, I let a mexican build my porch.

Spoiler: show

for my monkey?

[sy.ste]

Not as much as you might think. I'm here legally as well, but I'd get pissed if cops kept asking me to show mine yet Ned Flanders over there never gets asked.

If you are not of the same skin colour as the majority population of your country, but share the same colour and facial attributes as most of the illegal aliens, it is obvious why the policeman would not ask Ned Flanders but you instead. I doubt there are many white illegal aliens in the United states.

[Lucavi]

If you are not of the same skin colour as the majority population of your country, but share the same colour and facial attributes as most of the illegal aliens, it is obvious why the policeman would not ask Ned Flanders but you instead. I doubt there are many white illegal aliens in the United states.

And yet, 100 years ago, there were, which is why I originally asked how well a law like this would have gone over when it was much harder for the average white person to distinguish who was truly "different" from them.

Even so, that's still no reason. Should I be hauled off to jail simply because some other black guy committed a crime?

[Gadritan]

I still get pissed as fuck in line at walmart when 25 illegal mexicans buying the fruit they picked and shit with like 3 carts full in the express lane cause they can't read the sign that says 10 items or less. Can't they all go to that new mexican shop with the weird shit on the shelves down the road?

Worked at Food Lion for 6 months. This shit drove me crazy. Only thing worse was having some fucktard get $300 worth of steaks and shit on foodstamps who then gives you a crisp $100 bill to pay for their $50 of beer after you pry their attention away from their new iPhone.

[Gadritan]

And yet, 100 years ago, there were, which is why I originally asked how well a law like this would have gone over when it was much harder for the average white person to distinguish who was truly "different" from them.

Even so, that's still no reason. Should I be hauled off to jail simply because some other black guy committed a crime?

Two worlds Luc. There's the world of "should." There's the world of "is." You need to get more in touch with the latter.

[Lucavi]

The only time I use "is", is when I say "it is what it is."

Like with racism. It is what it is.

[Acturus]

Oh looky here. You can't randomly question people. You need prior "legal contact."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-92136104.html

You sure about that? Because I'm reading from the law's text itself, and it says "lawful contact," not "legal contact," and certainly not "prior 'legal contact'".

The law itself states:

[Section 2]
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

Lawful contact can be made where there is reasonable suspicion, and

[Section 2]
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

A law enforcement officer may make an arrest based on probable cause.

Further down the law, in Section 4, part E:

[Section 4]
E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND THIS SECTION.

Sounds an awful lot like Section 1, part B, only it's restricted to motor vehicles.


ERGO, if a law enforcement officer has probable cause that you're an illegal, then that officer is able to make lawful contact to determine your citizenship.

Also, I see nowhere in this law that specifically allows a Driver's License to validate citizenship.

[Kuya]

If you are not of the same skin colour as the majority population of your country, but share the same colour and facial attributes as most of the illegal aliens, it is obvious why the policeman would not ask Ned Flanders but you instead. I doubt there are many white illegal aliens in the United states.

I've personally already mentioned the fact that a large (unknown by me) number of illegal immigrants are those who get in via green cards and student visas and then stay after their time has expired. Out of these people, i don't know what amount is white, though no doubt there must be some.

[Gadritan]

Well, you're quite racist against white people. Or is this one of those deals where you can't be racist since you're a minority?

Edit: ^ @Luc

[archibaldcrane]

Oh looky here. You can't randomly question people. You need prior "legal contact."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-92136104.html

While I'm glad we're looking at the language of the law...


...you realize that a cop can manufacture "lawful contact" out of nearly any situation, right? I don't think anyone is expecting this to be a stormtrooper gestapo setup here.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Oops it is lawful contact. Same implications though. Lawful contact means the person has already violated another law.

That arrest section also means they've already done something, as well as the traffic section.

Edit for Archi - lawful contact means the person has already done something.

Edit - under federal law a police officer can already question you w/o probable cause and demand you show your proof of citizenship. The Arizona law makes it harder, you must have already done something in order for the cop to demand proof of citizenship.

[Lucavi]

Well, you're quite racist against white people. Or is this one of those deals where you can't be racist since you're a minority?

Edit: ^ @Luc

You're late to the thread. This has already been discussed. There's a bit of racisim there, but since it extends to all of humanity, its more of a hatred of the darker side of humans in general. White people simply catch it because it was, and continues to be their actions that have/do affect(ed) me.... you know, on account of being the master race and all, and the most powerful and influential race in all of existence.

[archibaldcrane]

Edit for Archi - lawful contact means the person has already done something.

Right. Like loitering, or jaywalking, or "weaving within their lane", or going 1 mile per hour over the speed limit.

And a cop's word against yours without a significant amount of evidence to the contrary in a court of law, means that if a cop wants you to have done "something", you will have done "something".

"Something" is an extremely low barrier of entry. If your argument is "don't ever break any laws or come into contact with any cops for any reason and you don't have to worry!", well, good luck with all of that.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Right. Like loitering, or jaywalking, or "weaving within their lane", or going 1 mile per hour over the speed limit.

And a cop's word against yours without a significant amount of evidence to the contrary in a court of law, means that if a cop wants you to have done "something", you will have done "something".

"Something" is an extremely low barrier of entry. If your argument is "don't ever break any laws or come into contact with any cops for any reason and you don't have to worry!", well, good luck with all of that.

Something = "broken a law."

And I don't disagree, my crim law professor was a cop and said that on average it takes 5 minutes of following a car before they commit a violation, but it's better than nothing. And again, all you have to give the cops is a DL # in Arizona.

[Day]

You're late to the thread. This has already been discussed. There's a bit of racisim there, but since it extends to all of humanity, its more of a hatred of the darker side of humans in general. White people simply catch it because it was, and continues to be their actions that have/do affect(ed) me.... you know, on account of being the master race and all, and the most powerful and influential race in all of existence.

Through the sarcasm and hatred all I hear is jealousy. How can you denounce something and admit to doing it all in the same breath?