Arizona to illegals: GTFO.

[Gadritan]

The law isn't vague, it says a DL is valid proof of citizenship.

Of course it is. I mean, those things are absolutely impossible to forge.

[Clyne]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ackground.html

FFS all you need is your driver's license.

Wow, you are a gigantic fucking moron and don't even read the information you try to use to support your argument:

Phoenix Vice Mayor Michael Nowakowski earlier in the week sent a letter to City Manager David Cavazos, suggesting that if the bill becomes law, police should request citizenship proof from everyone they stop in order to avoid charges of racial profiling.

The bill states that an Arizona driver's license is sufficient to prove citizenship. Nowakowski argued that licenses from other states, however, may not be sufficient because some states do not require proof of citizenship to get a license, as Arizona does.

"That means that anyone who drives in the city of Phoenix and gets pulled over better have a passport or a visa," he said.

Maybe if you lived here, you might have some clue what the fuck you're talking about, but for now, why don't you just kindly shut the fuck up and let the people that the law actually impacts clear some shit up for you.

Arizona's population is compromised of a relatively small % of natives, and a huge number of people here from other parts of the country and world. Full-time residents are supposed to have a state ID, but this isn't applicable to students and our very large population of "snowbirds". Example: Arizona State was the largest university in the United States over the last few years (though Ohio State may have taken it back, idk). Basically, if you're a LEGAL, student from another state with brown skin, you'd better take your passport out to the bar in case it gets raided for underage drinking, otherwise you're going to jail.

Hey, but maybe requiring everyone to go get (and pay for) a state ID will solve the state's budget crisis!

Racial profiling by law enforcement already runs rampant in the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office with Joe Arpaio at the helm - this law simply legalizes their actions and protects them from prosecution. The only saving grace is that this may save us tax payers millions of dollars since we won't have to pay for all the trials that have sprung up around him and his deputies (iirc, recent estimates say cases currently being pursued are will cost the County upwards of at least $3-4 million dollars this year, and cases that have already been settled over the last few years may have resulted in at least ~$11 million in costs and payouts).

Immigration reform is essential, and needs to be addressed soon. That said, this is a shitty law. I'm opposed to it for more than just the implications it brings in terms of racial profiling, etc.

The actual consequences of this law, though "unintended" will most adversely affect the already demolished state economy. Setting aside for now the contribution illegal labor makes/drains from the state, one of Arizona's primary industries is tourism. The struggle they've faced recently is nothing compared to what they could incur from bad publicity this brings about. As background, 20 years ago, Arizona had a Super Bowl taken away from them for failing to recognize MLK Day as an official holiday. It might seem kind of silly, but events such as this, along with conventions, etc., bring millions upon millions of dollars to the local and state economy. There is already rumblings that MLB is looking into the viability of taking away the 2011 All-Star game. Planning if probably too far along for them to go back on it now, but it wouldn't surprise me if Bud Selig got some pressure on him to look into it from a players union that has an extremely high percentage of Hispanic members.

Phoenix/Glendale was also in line as a potential Final Four & Super Bowl destination within the next 10 years. You can bet the committees that make those decisions won't be awarding any dates to Arizona until this controversy plays out.

A convention scheduled by Immigration Attorneys has already pulled out of the state; obviously, that's pretty logical given their interest in the matter. What's not as obvious, is the situation where the San Francisco Board of Supervisors is exploring a boycott in doing business with any contractor from or based in Arizona, including whether they have grounds to terminate existing contracts due to this law.

And I'm sure all the brown people from other parts of the country visiting for business or pleasure will love going to the jail when they make an illegal turn trying to get on the freeway after picking up their rental car at the airport because they forgot their passport on their non-international trip.

Boycotts are often a lot of talk and little action, so there may be nothing to come of all these economic "sanctions" being tossed about. But Arizona has been portrayed negatively across the nation in recent years, and that shit tends to snowball. This could very well prove to be a tipping point in turning it from talk to action.

Gov. Jan Brewer also pretty much signed her termination papers, as she was already trailing the potential Democratic nominee for re-election this fall. Which is actually kind of unfortunate, because prior to taking over as Governor when Janet Napolitano left for Washington, she had displayed a rather solid track record of success.

All that said, while I don't like this law at all, similar to the healthcare legislation, SOMETHNG needs to be done, and as severely flawed as it is, I'm willing to see how it plays out in hopes that it's a (short) first step to a more well-rounded, long-term solution. I'd have a lot more confidence in it if Arpaio wasn't around to abuse the law as much as he can. I expect the racial profiling by the MCSO to go through the roof...but every proponent of the law says that's not going to happen, so I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

[bynie]

silly mexicans walking through desert, take the plane

[Kuya]

I still like how someone can say "white honkeys," and no one cares. Yet I could get my ass kicked for calling someone a porch monkey (it's ok, I'm bringing it back).

It's ridiculous.

Racist is racist.

I'm not sure how that got tied into this whole mess anyways considering it's nationalism that's the issue here, not racism.

Have you noticed that more and more it's becoming normal to discriminate and hate on white people for the colour of their skin? I fact i bet if a group of black people beat up a white man, they would get far less time in jail and the media would care less if it were a group of white men beating up a black man.

[Yugl]

Have you noticed that more and more it's becoming normal to discriminate and hate on white people for the colour of their skin? I fact i bet if a group of black people beat up a white man, they would get far less time in jail and the media would care less if it were a group of white men beating up a black man.

Absolutely not the case. Statistically, speaking, the white men would receive less jail time (Using more recent statistics so as to avoid 1960s-1980s skews). However, the you would be right if you were solely referring solely to media.

[archibaldcrane]

Yugl?

C'mon. Was that hook not sharp enough for you? Or was it so sharp you didn't feel it sink into your lip when you bit the troll bait?

[Kuya]

Absolutely not the case. Statistically, speaking, the white men would receive less jail time (Using more recent statistics so as to avoid 1960s-1980s skews). However, the you would be right if you were solely referring solely to media.

With all this affirmative action, i would not be surprised if all these statistics were done by non whites.

[Takedown3]

get ready for the big switch whitey's we all gonna be slaves in a decade or two, better run yo ass up to canada and try and find a nice safe forest to hide in

[Yugl]

With all this affirmative action, i would not be surprised if all these statistics were done by non whites.

Oh please, since when do non-whites get their statistics published unless they're Chinese or Indian.

Yugl?

C'mon. Was that hook not sharp enough for you? Or was it so sharp you didn't feel it sink into your lip when you bit the troll bait?

Better than responding to the other mess in here!

[sekaran]

I thought this was relevant.
http://media.eyeblast.org/newsbuster...NBC-Brewer.jpg

I don't get the outrage. Its not like showing ID is new.

[*Shinzon*]

I thought this was relevant.
http://media.eyeblast.org/newsbuster...NBC-Brewer.jpg

I don't get the outrage. Its not like showing ID is new.

It's going to be a crime to be Hispanic though.

[Beckwin]

Oh looky here. You can't randomly question people. You need prior "legal contact."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-92136104.html

prior legal contact: hey, you're jaywalking.

fantastic

[ringthree]

I'd like to say that my grandparents/great-grandparents were immigrants. Here's the difference.

They didn't break any laws crossing the borders. They obeyed all the lawful requirements for entering the country.

Illegal immigrants? Start your life in the USA from day 1 knowing that if you're caught, you're deported. Illegals exist in the eyes of the criminal community to be used in a wide variety of illegal employments, from sweatshops to under-the-table pay jobs of all kinds, mostly unskilled or blue-collar. They come here in a criminal act and end up used to commit more.

In short, competition for the kind of person my grandma and great-grandpa were- legal, law-abiding people who became citizens by being part of the system from day 1. So yeah, I don't like illegal immigrants. I'd like to see the laws applied with great zeal to both the citizens that use illegals and the illegals themselves. It's a twisted patch of wickedness that grows Americans dirty money while they trample on the backs of their fellow criminals.

I'd love to see the cost of hiring illegals include a fine paying for their deporting, paid by their employer. I'd like it abundantly obvious to illegals that we do take the tired, the poor, and the wretched. But "trespasser" is nowhere on the list. Nor is "criminal". America has enough goddamn problems without feeding millions into it's poverty.

Do you know that our incredibly low immigration quotas are based on the idea that the US is going to have a certain amount of illegal immigrants every year? So in essence our policy makes it harder for people that want to legally immigrate and the impossibility of stopping illegal immigration just encourages people to jump the border.

What if we just changed our immigration quotas to reflect the reality of immigration and got rid of the near insane notion that we can stop illegal immigration?

Your problem doesn't seem to be with legal immigrants, and it would be very easy to register new immigrants if they knew they had an actual chance of being accepted into the country. You would also be able to spend those current wasted funds on finding those that want to cross into the US for real evil intent.

The criminality argument you are making is specious at best, and jingoistic at worst. It is scapegoating at it's worst. Essentially, your argument is that since they are illegal, everything that stems from them is illegal, so they are breeding a den of criminals. Remove the immigration and provide these people with defensible status, and all of the crimes go away. You don't get to point at the "root cause" of the problem, then fail to do anything about that cause.

[Kuya]

Do you know that our incredibly low immigration quotas are based on the idea that the US is going to have a certain amount of illegal immigrants every year? So in essence our policy makes it harder for people that want to legally immigrate and the impossibility of stopping illegal immigration just encourages people to jump the border.

What if we just changed our immigration quotas to reflect the reality of immigration and got rid of the near insane notion that we can stop illegal immigration?

This is pretty much all that needs to be said about this issue.

[Yuri-G]

has this already been posted? don't see it on this page, at least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSzxjd3B8Ik

[Gadritan]

has this already been posted? don't see it on this page, at least

Patti can get it.

[Churchill]

Technically, if you live here/work here, you have 3 months to get an Arizona Driver's License and Registration for your vehicle or you are not in compliance with Arizona State Law.

Not sure how this affects students, but there may be a clause allowing them to bypass this, similar to members of the military.

[Kyreth]

Do you know that our incredibly low immigration quotas are based on the idea that the US is going to have a certain amount of illegal immigrants every year? So in essence our policy makes it harder for people that want to legally immigrate and the impossibility of stopping illegal immigration just encourages people to jump the border.

What if we just changed our immigration quotas to reflect the reality of immigration and got rid of the near insane notion that we can stop illegal immigration?

Your problem doesn't seem to be with legal immigrants, and it would be very easy to register new immigrants if they knew they had an actual chance of being accepted into the country. You would also be able to spend those current wasted funds on finding those that want to cross into the US for real evil intent.

My problem is that there really isn't any enforcement. Illegal immigration is treated as a slap-on-the-wrist crime. Increase the flow of people into the USA and you'll just end up with the same problem- only now the bad guys blend into an even larger pool of people who have documentation.

The criminality argument you are making is specious at best, and jingoistic at worst. It is scapegoating at it's worst. Essentially, your argument is that since they are illegal, everything that stems from them is illegal, so they are breeding a den of criminals. Remove the immigration and provide these people with defensible status, and all of the crimes go away. You don't get to point at the "root cause" of the problem, then fail to do anything about that cause.

Here's the point. We have plenty of people in the USA as it is, American citizens at that who are poor, damned to live in high-crime, low-income areas from cradle to early grave. We don't even take care of our own citizenry and our economy strains as it is dealing with that burden.

Now, add in that pile of immigrants. Even if legalized, these people aren't providing much that we couldn't get from our own existing population. There aren't enough opportunities in our land of opportunity as it is- and immigration artificially inflates the population with people who end up draining more out of state and federal budgets than they put in.

We have hit the point at which unlimited or large-scale immigration takes more out of the nation than it puts in- we don't NEED more uneducated, unskilled labor in the USA. All those college-educated student visa types? We need THEM. People who will benefit the nation where it needs it- intelligent, educated, motivated, and not thousands of people who don't speak the language, can't do the big money jobs, and increasingly splinter the population simply by being here. The majority of the immigrant population is being used to propagate a lie. The lie needs to end and so does the process that people come to this country and instead of being assimilated, end up creating new areas of poverty and crime that speak Spanish or Korean instead of English- and nothing else is different.

The doors have to close at some point, or we're literally going to be buried under the people who come to our country looking for a better life. It's not racist- if we had hordes of English-speaking white, illegal immigrants that ended up producing massive urban blight and skyrocketing crime rates...I'd be on the same side of the debate.

[Kuya]

My problem is that there really isn't any enforcement. Illegal immigration is treated as a slap-on-the-wrist crime. Increase the flow of people into the USA and you'll just end up with the same problem- only now the bad guys blend into an even larger pool of people who have documentation.



Here's the point. We have plenty of people in the USA as it is, American citizens at that who are poor, damned to live in high-crime, low-income areas from cradle to early grave. We don't even take care of our own citizenry and our economy strains as it is dealing with that burden.

Now, add in that pile of immigrants. Even if legalized, these people aren't providing much that we couldn't get from our own existing population. There aren't enough opportunities in our land of opportunity as it is- and immigration artificially inflates the population with people who end up draining more out of state and federal budgets than they put in.

We have hit the point at which unlimited or large-scale immigration takes more out of the nation than it puts in- we don't NEED more uneducated, unskilled labor in the USA. All those college-educated student visa types? We need THEM. People who will benefit the nation where it needs it- intelligent, educated, motivated, and not thousands of people who don't speak the language, can't do the big money jobs, and increasingly splinter the population simply by being here. The majority of the immigrant population is being used to propagate a lie. The lie needs to end and so does the process that people come to this country and instead of being assimilated, end up creating new areas of poverty and crime that speak Spanish or Korean instead of English- and nothing else is different.

The doors have to close at some point, or we're literally going to be buried under the people who come to our country looking for a better life. It's not racist- if we had hordes of English-speaking white, illegal immigrants that ended up producing massive urban blight and skyrocketing crime rates...I'd be on the same side of the debate.

Do you have any evidence to show that there is a large group of immigrants being held back by rigid immigration procedures that haven't already entered illegally? I have to say, i am doubting your intelligence because of the use of the phrase "bad guys" so uncritically, coupled with the fact that you did not even mention why entering the US illegally is so easy.

Next, do you have any evidence to show that the miserable status of whatever group it is you're talking about is exacerbated by illegal immigrants? For starters, what groups are you referring to? You should be more specific. I would like you to answer why you think this non specified group or groups live in poverty and high crime; do you blame it on illegal immigration? Can you prove that as the cause?

Once again, i also seriously doubt you have any information that asserts that the US has fact hit this point of marginal returns. I realize internet forums, especially one about videogames, are very lax when it comes to debate, but you should at least try to be more detailed. For example, those college educated types as you call them, i've already mentioned this, but are you aware they also form part of this illegal immigration problem? Are you suggesting we should have more college educated (well, in the process of college education is a more accurate descriptor) illegal immigrants than those without? It sounds logical, maybe you should expand on that more. You probably should, given that your post is now starting to give the airs that you simply prefer english speaking poor people over spanish speaking poor people.

As for your last paragraph, yes you clearly would be on the same side of the debate that claimed that the waves and waves of Irish, Italians, Jews and Eastern Europeans flooding the States would bring ruin to society and that these people would never adapt. A fitting observation.

[Beckwin]

Technically, if you live here/work here, you have 3 months to get an Arizona Driver's License and Registration for your vehicle or you are not in compliance with Arizona State Law.

Not sure how this affects students, but there may be a clause allowing them to bypass this, similar to members of the military.

and students who don't drive?