Arizona to illegals: GTFO.

[Beckwin]

gee kyreth, what about jobs for college educated AMERICANS?

you're pretty much just hating on the poor here, yet when you look at jobs held by illegals, most of them are not college-education required jobs- quite the opposite. and that's the labor demand we keep referring to: it's in "poor people jobs" that have proven to be difficult to fill (at least at the wages employers want to pay). this law does zilch to change that.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

First, I'm a gigantic fucking moron and can't read. Second, I then posted a bunch of shit irrelevant to the interpretation of the law that I was responding to.

It's ok, that's what I'm here for!

The law says a drivers license. It does not say a DL that required that proof of citizenship be shown. It says a fucking DL.

Rhino, I believe it's the line in the law that says "should a DL or other state issued ID not be shown" that says a DL is fine.

[Rhinox]

It's ok, that's what I'm here for!

The law says a drivers license. It does not say a DL that required that proof of citizenship be shown. It says a fucking DL.

Rhino, I believe it's the line in the law that says "should a DL or other state issued ID not be shown" that says a DL is fine.

Ugh did you see what that line was referring too? It is grounds for having your car impounded. Thats the only references to Driver license thats in the bill I posted.

[Rhinox]

I can't fault white people for their Bigotry.

In the 1950's they made up 27.98% of the worlds population and by 2060 they will be hovering around 9%.

Point is They're afraid of change in the makeup of this country. They bitch and moan about learning a second language because it takes them out of their comfort zone. Everything was catered towards them and more and more they are seeing the shift that they won't be in power anymore. This is why they have so much animosity towards non-white immigrants.

You don't hear cries about the 'dirty' Pollocks or 'dirty' Ukrainians/Russians because they pass the white test even though aside from Hispanics eastern Europeans make up the next highest total number of 'Illegal' immigrants.

[Dimmauk]

I can't fault white people for their Bigotry.

In the 1950's they made up 27.98% of the worlds population and by 2060 they will be hovering around 9%.

Point is They're afraid of change in the makeup of this country. They bitch and moan about learning a second language because it takes them out of their comfort zone. Everything was catered towards them and more and more they are seeing the shift that they won't be in power anymore. This is why they have so much animosity towards non-white immigrants.

You don't hear cries about the 'dirty' Pollocks or 'dirty' Ukrainians/Russians because they pass the white test even though aside from Hispanics eastern Europeans make up the next highest total number of 'Illegal' immigrants.

"This is the death rattle of racism in this country," says Grayson. "That's why you're seeing it in Arizona … because Arizona's 10 or 15 years of becoming a majority-minority state. … The forces of white Christianity are fighting back." Rep. Alan Grayson

This.

[Jefe]

[Rhinox]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu


Was just about to post that

[Rhinox]

btw I love that the GOP meme of 'Common sense' is spreading more and more.


I can only speak for myself but I'd want someone with more then just 'common sense' running the country.

[Kuya]

The phrase common sense is often a battle cry for conservatives.

[Stellar]

I can't fault white people for their Bigotry.

In the 1950's they made up 27.98% of the worlds population and by 2060 they will be hovering around 9%.

Point is They're afraid of change in the makeup of this country. They bitch and moan about learning a second language because it takes them out of their comfort zone. Everything was catered towards them and more and more they are seeing the shift that they won't be in power anymore. This is why they have so much animosity towards non-white immigrants.

You don't hear cries about the 'dirty' Pollocks or 'dirty' Ukrainians/Russians because they pass the white test even though aside from Hispanics eastern Europeans make up the next highest total number of 'Illegal' immigrants.

I really doubt race is the most consistent attribute conducive to bigotry.

You don't hear cries from them because a media story highlighting a white male's pain and suffering due to being the subject of a racial slur would only be aired on the comedy channel.

Maybe I missed sarcasm or something. Hopped on @ page 11...

[Kyreth]

Do you have any evidence to show that there is a large group of immigrants being held back by rigid immigration procedures that haven't already entered illegally? I have to say, i am doubting your intelligence because of the use of the phrase "bad guys" so uncritically, coupled with the fact that you did not even mention why entering the US illegally is so easy.

Actually, quite the opposite. There isn't a large group being held back, because getting across the US border is relatively easy. Heck, a huge chunk of illegals are visa-expired...folks who got legal entry, overstayed their time, and went off the map. Enforcement is lax. The odds are in their favor, and we end up with people who came, made excuses to get into the country, and then proceeded to abuse that in staying here.

Next, do you have any evidence to show that the miserable status of whatever group it is you're talking about is exacerbated by illegal immigrants? For starters, what groups are you referring to? You should be more specific. I would like you to answer why you think this non specified group or groups live in poverty and high crime; do you blame it on illegal immigration? Can you prove that as the cause?

History. I can trace my own family's back to an Irish "teamster" great-grandpa and an uncle who was the made man of the Italian part of the family (and hence, part of the Family). The drug trade in the Southwest is often built on the backs of illegals.

http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_3322163
http://www.urban.org/publications/410366.html

Illegals generally fall well below the poverty line in the USA, and low-income areas breed crime.

Once again, i also seriously doubt you have any information that asserts that the US has fact hit this point of marginal returns. I realize internet forums, especially one about videogames, are very lax when it comes to debate, but you should at least try to be more detailed. For example, those college educated types as you call them, i've already mentioned this, but are you aware they also form part of this illegal immigration problem? Are you suggesting we should have more college educated (well, in the process of college education is a more accurate descriptor) illegal immigrants than those without? It sounds logical, maybe you should expand on that more. You probably should, given that your post is now starting to give the airs that you simply prefer english speaking poor people over spanish speaking poor people.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/lab...ranscript.html

"So as a result, we're very effective at constraining supply at the high end because we enforce those rules of the labor market, and they're primarily enforced by the firms themselves. At the bottom of the labor market, what's happened is quite the opposite. And part of what I think and part of the reason I think that it reconciles some of Jared's findings and Steve's findings is I think the flow of immigrants themselves have begun to really erode fundamental labor market institutions, that the rules and regulations, the laws, the standards we've developed since really beginning with the New Deal have really begun to be fundamentally eroded as we flood the bottom, that no regulation can withstand very massive flows of immigrants and labor supply will always trump regulatory enforcement. "

As for your last paragraph, yes you clearly would be on the same side of the debate that claimed that the waves and waves of Irish, Italians, Jews and Eastern Europeans flooding the States would bring ruin to society and that these people would never adapt. A fitting observation.

Actually, no. Those waves of immigrants ended up coming in- but the labor system absorbed them, legitimized them, organized them, and the people in question didn't end up breaking the low-end labor market in the process. The modern-day situation is far different. Read that link above the quote. It's a lot of reading, but it's also a lot of food for thought.

[Rhinox]

Might want to check your sources.


Center for Immigration Studies

I'm sure I can Google and find things that contradict what you're saying.

btw Poverty breeds crime not Illegal immigrants

Fuck sake look up Five points in New York back in the 1860's Pretty sure your ancestors were part of a "breeding grounds" for crime and if the illegal drug trade was as big back then as it is today you can bet your ass your anecestors would have been apart of it.

[Beckwin]

well logically, we should round up and deport all people from low income areas, since they breed crime. legal or illegal is thus a superfluous distinction; you've identified the real problem.

[Mugekuge]

Is ok, with latin women like this i guess is hard for pure white americans to keep them as main race:

NSFW ( i guess)

Spoiler: show

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...9/c7695f66.jpg

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...9/17b963b5.jpg

[Yugl]

btw Poverty breeds crime not Illegal immigrants

Actually, laws breed crime!

[Kyreth]

well logically, we should round up and deport all people from low income areas, since they breed crime. legal or illegal is thus a superfluous distinction; you've identified the real problem.

Handily enough, letting all those folks head this way neatly does just that for other countries- though they don't have to force the issue. And fuck your straw man- if legal and poor was grounds for deportation, half of /bg/ would be on the next plane out.

After all, if they're here, are they much of a problem for (say, in our case in America) Mexico, South and Central American countries?

Not at all. Those people instead work here and being human, send some of that money back to their families in their countries of origin. If their visas expire? They stay anyway. If it takes coming into the country without one? Many do that, too. It's a double benefit- money comes into their economies, and they're now fewer people that government has to deal with at home for education, health care, etc. etc.

Being lax on emigration for countries south of the USA is pretty much a given. We're a safety valve. Mexico's big problems with immigration? All the folks passing through on the way here.

And what, you don't think historically this has happened before? Countries have always been glad to export their poverty to other places.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

"This is the death rattle of racism in this country," says Grayson. "That's why you're seeing it in Arizona … because Arizona's 10 or 15 years of becoming a majority-minority state. … The forces of white Christianity are fighting back." Rep. Alan Grayson

This.

Yea, and the reason Obama doesn't like this law? He'd have to prove his citizenship if he went there.

[Olo401]

Yea, and the reason Obama doesn't like this law? He'd have to prove his citizenship if he went there.

And so would you. And I. And anyone else who achieved "reasonable suspicion", which can be done as easily as staring at the wrong person.

That's the point. This law is a direct violation of the Fourth Amendment - it is absolutely unreasonable that any person be required to present proof of citizenship not only because it violates the protection of the people to be secure in their personal effects and papers, but also because this law allows a person to be arrested just because of another person's opinion of what a citizen of this country should look like or act like.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

It was a joke, pointing out the absurdity of that guys post by referencing the absurdity that Obama isn't a citizen.

[Beckwin]

Handily enough, letting all those folks head this way neatly does just that for other countries- though they don't have to force the issue. And fuck your straw man- if legal and poor was grounds for deportation, half of /bg/ would be on the next plane out.

After all, if they're here, are they much of a problem for (say, in our case in America) Mexico, South and Central American countries?

Not at all. Those people instead work here and being human, send some of that money back to their families in their countries of origin. If their visas expire? They stay anyway. If it takes coming into the country without one? Many do that, too. It's a double benefit- money comes into their economies, and they're now fewer people that government has to deal with at home for education, health care, etc. etc.

Being lax on emigration for countries south of the USA is pretty much a given. We're a safety valve. Mexico's big problems with immigration? All the folks passing through on the way here.

And what, you don't think historically this has happened before? Countries have always been glad to export their poverty to other places.

You're implying that all impoverished Mexicans and Central/South Americans emigrate to the US, alleviating that region of all it's problems.... lol. Economic opportunity has always been the primary reason for virtually all waves of immigration, legal or illegal. Are you saying that we should ignore the fundamentals of immigration just so we have slightly fewer impoverished neighborhoods in America? Keep in mind that illegal immigrants are generally considered a boon to the economy and contrary to popular belief, it's hard to collect social services without proof of citizenship.