Arizona to illegals: GTFO.

[archibaldcrane]

2. Contrary to many of the horror stories being spread -- President Obama suggested families risk being pulled over while going out for ice cream -- law enforcement cannot randomly ask anyone about their immigration status. Much like enforcement of seat belt laws in many states, under SB 1070 there must first be reasonable suspicion that you are breaking some OTHER non-immigration law before an officer can ask a person about their legal status. Only then, after law enforcement officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that another law has been broken, can they inquire about immigration status -- but ONLY if that individual's behavior provides "reasonable suspicion" that the person is here illegally.

"Reasonable suspicion" is a well-understood concept that has been thoroughly vetted through numerous federal court cases. Many have asked: What is reasonable suspicion? Is it race, skin color or national origin? No! Racial profiling is prohibited in the new law. Examples of reasonable suspicion include: a person running away when approached by law enforcement officers, or a car failing to stop when the police turn on their lights and siren.

So the good thing to come out of this statement is at least a -few- things that delineate what qualifies as "reasonable suspicion". However, the Governor is being a bitch when she talks about how "'Reasonable suspicion' is a well-understood concept that has been thoroughly vetted through numerous federal court cases."

That is not detailed enough. Look, if they wanted to enforce this when people run from the cops, then just make the law that in any circumstance where people run from the cops during attempted lawful contact following reasonable suspicion of a violation, legal residency will be required to be determined.

The question is - if race/nationality doesn't matter, but running from the cops does - what other activities delineate reasonable suspicion of illegal immigrant status? Just fucking lay it out for us, please. Tell the people of Arizona what qualifies. If running from the cops is the only thing that qualifies, and that's all that will be enforced, the fervor over this will settle down right fucking quick.

The ambiguity is the enemy. If "reasonable suspicion" is so well-vetted by the courts, then just tell us what qualifies. The citizens and legal immigrants of Arizona have a right to know.

[archibaldcrane]

Also, what is the legal punishment for illegally immigrating to the U.S.? Anyone know what term/fine/immigration action that crime carries?

[Gadritan]

Also, what is the legal punishment for illegally immigrating to the U.S.? Anyone know what term/fine/immigration action that crime carries?

I believe it's a misdemeanor and you can receive up to 30 days in jail.

Correct me if I'm wrong. With this AZ shit, it's hard to search info on it since it brings up 8million rants about AZ.

[archibaldcrane]

Going to be funny seeing the outrage when Arizona residents learn that these people aren't getting deported, and instead are just sucking up taxpayer money in jail.

[Gadritan]

Most of them are aware of it. They also feel that just deporting them isn't really a solution since they'll more than likely just hop back over.

Now, what would be a solution is another one of those raging hot topics.

[archibaldcrane]

Final solution?

[Gadritan]

lol. I'm not even gonna' touch that.

[Denchi]

Yeah, no doubt the law can lead to un-desirable results. Time will have to tell how it plays out.

[Morn]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet.

(In before: "Read all 19 pages or gtfo")

This state (AZ) is full of U.S. Border Patrol check points. At these check points everyone gets stopped and asked if they are a US citizen.

There has been no national outrage in the many years this has been going on.

You get asked your citizenship simply for driving down the road. Additionally, there are typically K-9 units searching for drugs in all vehicles passing through the checkpoint.

Again, where is the outrage?

[Feedmenow]

So the good thing to come out of this statement is at least a -few- things that delineate what qualifies as "reasonable suspicion". However, the Governor is being a bitch when she talks about how "'Reasonable suspicion' is a well-understood concept that has been thoroughly vetted through numerous federal court cases."

That is not detailed enough. Look, if they wanted to enforce this when people run from the cops, then just make the law that in any circumstance where people run from the cops during attempted lawful contact following reasonable suspicion of a violation, legal residency will be required to be determined.

The question is - if race/nationality doesn't matter, but running from the cops does - what other activities delineate reasonable suspicion of illegal immigrant status? Just fucking lay it out for us, please. Tell the people of Arizona what qualifies. If running from the cops is the only thing that qualifies, and that's all that will be enforced, the fervor over this will settle down right fucking quick.

The ambiguity is the enemy. If "reasonable suspicion" is so well-vetted by the courts, then just tell us what qualifies. The citizens and legal immigrants of Arizona have a right to know.

This is more or less the biggest reason why the new law is hated so much. Amorphous legal phrases like "reasonable suspicion" don't really belong in any rule with serious consequences.

Going to be funny seeing the outrage when Arizona residents learn that these people aren't getting deported, and instead are just sucking up taxpayer money in jail.

Probably why AZ is trying to get federal government to do something.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet.

(In before: "Read all 19 pages or gtfo")

This state (AZ) is full of U.S. Border Patrol check points. At these check points everyone gets stopped and asked if they are a US citizen.

At the border, or like...in the middle of the state? When I drove through Arizona I didn't go through any border patrol checkpoints.

[Denchi]

There's a checkpoint between AZ and CA, and then of course Mexico, but I don't believe there are any between AZ and Utah/Colorado/New Mexico.

[Gadritan]

They do have "interior," checkpoints.

These checkpoints are located between 25 and 75 miles of the Mexico – United States border along major U.S. highways. Their situation at interior locations allow them to deter illegal activities that may have bypassed official border crossings along the frontier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...or_Checkpoints

[Denchi]

Both of those are still terribly close to the border. Both near Mexico, one near California as well.

[Morn]

There's a checkpoint between AZ and CA, and then of course Mexico, but I don't believe there are any between AZ and Utah/Colorado/New Mexico.

I typically pass through two driving to my mom's place.

[Gadritan]

Both of those are still terribly close to the border. Both near Mexico, one near California and Mexico.

But are still interior checkpoints of which people who aren't entering/leaving either country would still have to pass through.

Just passing the info along.

[Denchi]

Well I've managed to miss a lot of them driving around AZ a ton lol. Maybe this is an example of being white and having MN plates being advantageous?

Edit: And yeah I understand. I guess it just doesn't seem as shocking as a checkpoint near Phoenix. But for people living in those areas (Yuma, Nogales) it could be less than ideal.

[archibaldcrane]

Doesn't sound too unlike the sobriety/driver's license checkpoints they set up here in L.A. - different stated purpose but some similar effects.

(and yes I think those are bullshit and should be ruled unconstitutional too)

[Gadritan]

Doesn't sound too unlike the sobriety/driver's license checkpoints they set up here in L.A. - different stated purpose but some similar effects.

(and yes I think those are bullshit and should be ruled unconstitutional too)

Wow.

They do DUI/license checkpoints in every state, and I would assume nearly every city/town, regularly.

I'd rather be inconvenienced by having to give an officer my information and go through the checkpoint than have myself or another one of my friends/family killed by a drunk driver.

Edit: And I've been pulled aside to be searched on multiple occasions at these checkpoints because of my appearance (Edit2: Lots of tattoos and a Sublime wallet with a pot leaf on it). Took all of 5-10minutes and I went on my merry way since I wasn't doing anything wrong. I don't see the problem with it.

[pohibaba]

Wow.

They do DUI/license checkpoints in every state, and I would assume nearly every city/town, regularly.

The problem with them in southern CA is that they are DUI checkpoints in name only. The real purpose of them is to look for illegal immigrants. This can be proven by the fact that on any night that they hold one of these, they'll arrest maybe 1 person for DUI, but haul in dozens for immigration violations.