Arizona to illegals: GTFO.

[Demosthenes11]

honest question here and I'm asking this as independently as possible

Probable cause and reasonable suspicion has been allowed for decades upon decades with little to no outcry. Why is it now that it is over the line? Honestly it at least looks a little ironic because the line being drawn when it's used on non-citizens

[Kuya]

It's the racial connotation that gets liberal panties in a bunch, or so i feel is true for some.

[Kuya]

Reasonable suspicion is okay when it applies equally to everyone, or something like that, but not when it means looking like an Arab or looking like a Mexican. Or so, that is what i think there is a reaction to, not that i'm saying this is a wrong feeling to have or that this is the essential retort to this occasion.

[Rhinox]

honest question here and I'm asking this as independently as possible

Probable cause and reasonable suspicion has been allowed for decades upon decades with little to no outcry. Why is it now that it is over the line? Honestly it at least looks a little ironic because the line being drawn when it's used on non-citizens

What? This has always been a sour spot for Civil Libertarians. The fact that you didn't hear/read about in a internet game forum is an Indictment on you not us.

[*Shinzon*]

honest question here and I'm asking this as independently as possible

Probable cause and reasonable suspicion has been allowed for decades upon decades with little to no outcry. Why is it now that it is over the line? Honestly it at least looks a little ironic because the line being drawn when it's used on non-citizens

Who some could argue aren't entitled to constitutional protections, although they are as long as they are on US soil. I mentioned before somewhere in this thread that a lot of the reaction or outcry is caused by the way the situation is being handled more so than what's actually happening. You could argue that if there were certain conditions in place before this law was introduced there might not be any outcry at all. The law itself probably won't stand but it'll be interesting to see how many other approved law enforcement standards get attacked during this whole debate. This is one of those popular debates that obviously gets around enough that people who hear about it don't grasp the totality of the situation. A lot of things people are complaining of have already been brought before the SC and ruled on in one way or another.

[Demosthenes11]

What? This has always been a sour spot for Civil Libertarians. The fact that you didn't hear/read about in a internet game forum is an Indictment on you not us.

I'm not talking about here I'm talking about general public. i have honestly never read or heard anyone in any setting complain about those phrases until now

[Demosthenes11]

Reasonable suspicion is okay when it applies equally to everyone, or something like that, but not when it means looking like an Arab or looking like a Mexican. Or so, that is what i think there is a reaction to, not that i'm saying this is a wrong feeling to have or that this is the essential retort to this occasion.

people with tattoos, blacks, the mentally handicapped etc have always been the targets of such suspicions though.

[Rhinox]

I'm not talking about here I'm talking about general public. i have honestly never read or heard anyone in any setting complain about those phrases until now

Because its the hot button issue? same could have been said about any law that either establish or reinforce an already controversial law or practice like DOMA, DADT, Patriot act etc etc etc. Ergo public outcry will always be present in situations like this.

[Lurking Badger]

I was under the impression that it was mostly communist regimes or other totalitarian states that required their citizens to carry ID at all times.

[Mugekuge]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_by_country


Interesting, i had no idea so many countries didn't ask you to have it on you at all times, funny the 3 countries i have ID needs to be carried...

[Beckwin]

people with tattoos, blacks, the mentally handicapped etc have always been the targets of such suspicions though.

what, all the sudden you don't remember profiling controversies?

[Demosthenes11]

oh I absolutely do when it was in the context of fully acknowledging and legalizing profiling (post 9/11 etc), but I have never heard controversy about those specific phrases before until now

[Tagus]

oh I absolutely do when it was in the context of fully acknowledging and legalizing profiling (post 9/11 etc), but I have never heard controversy about those specific phrases before until now

I think it's mostly because there's half a million illegal immigrants living in Arizona that could potentially be given das boot. people with handicaps, tattoos, and blacks have never been threatened with deportation the way that illegal immigrants are going to be through this legislation. I also kinda think the racial profiling uproar is really just a smokescreen... those in support of Mexican illegal immigrants staying here are just using it to combat the legislation. It's really not racial profiling when you look at half a million immigrants from a specific country and tell them gtfo because they keep walking on over the border. Who are they going to target with this if they feel like they've got a problem and it needs to be finally fixed? Germans? Italians? Canadians? It's Mexican people that are crossing over the border and living 14 to a house.

[Rhinox]

I think it's mostly because there's half a million illegal immigrants living in Arizona that could potentially be given das boot. people with handicaps, tattoos, and blacks have never been threatened with deportation the way that illegal immigrants are going to be through this legislation. I also kinda think the racial profiling uproar is really just a smokescreen... those in support of Mexican illegal immigrants staying here are just using it to combat the legislation. It's really not racial profiling when you look at half a million immigrants from a specific country and tell them gtfo because they keep walking on over the border. Who are they going to target with this if they feel like they've got a problem and it needs to be finally fixed? Germans? Italians? Canadians? It's Mexican people that are crossing over the border and living 14 to a house.

lol

[Jonny]

I think it's mostly because there's half a million illegal immigrants living in Arizona that could potentially be given das boot. people with handicaps, tattoos, and blacks have never been threatened with deportation the way that illegal immigrants are going to be through this legislation. I also kinda think the racial profiling uproar is really just a smokescreen... those in support of Mexican illegal immigrants staying here are just using it to combat the legislation. It's really not racial profiling when you look at half a million immigrants from a specific country and tell them gtfo because they keep walking on over the border. Who are they going to target with this if they feel like they've got a problem and it needs to be finally fixed? Germans? Italians? Canadians? It's Mexican people that are crossing over the border and living 14 to a house.

All my family lives in a single house and we fuck our cousins.... Oh wait I'm not a redneck,

[Rhinox]

Reason why we shouldn't give Police more power to detain people. The guy wasn't even under arrest only detained for questioning and this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g1uvG5WoX0

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...cid=webmaildl1

This happens far to often to be considered Isolated incidents. Fact is the majority of cops may be doing good out there but an overwhelming portion of them are racist dicks who more then likely got punked in school.


And these are the people who we rely on reasonable suspicion.

Thanks but no thanks.

[archibaldcrane]

honest question here and I'm asking this as independently as possible

Probable cause and reasonable suspicion has been allowed for decades upon decades with little to no outcry. Why is it now that it is over the line? Honestly it at least looks a little ironic because the line being drawn when it's used on non-citizens

I think it's mainly because in most cases we understand what "reasonable suspicion" could be. For illegal immigration...I mean...since illegal immigrants and legal immigrants and citizens all look the same...what could possibly entail "reasonable suspicion"? I mean if you see a guy who is soaking wet next to the Rio Grande, sure - reasonable suspicion. Otherwise? Ehhhhhh....

Shit's vague as hell, that's why it's poorly written and why people are up in arms about it. Too much chance for citizens to get caught up in this dragnet (even if they're ultimately released) because of how vague it is.

[*Shinzon*]

Reason why we shouldn't give Police more power to detain people. The guy wasn't even under arrest only detained for questioning and this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g1uvG5WoX0

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...cid=webmaildl1

This happens far to often to be considered Isolated incidents. Fact is the majority of cops may be doing good out there but an overwhelming portion of them are racist dicks who more then likely got punked in school.


And these are the people who we rely on reasonable suspicion.

Thanks but no thanks.

It's not the fault of the "police" it's the fault of bad cops getting through the screening process. Bad cops are bad people before they become cops. While I don't advocate giving police more power, when discussing their current powers it's important to make that distinction. If you ever talk to a cop they'll tell you the same thing. Police departments really need to do a better job of screening people, but in a rough economy its hard to divert important funding to improve the process, but it's very necessary.

[Alleya]

There is a lot more to abuse of punitive power than the "bad apple" theory. I suggest reading up on the stanford prison experiment, group think, and risky shift.

[*Shinzon*]

There is a lot more to abuse of punitive power than the "bad apple" theory. I suggest reading up on the stanford prison experiment, group think, and risky shift.

I understand what you mean when you say that, and it's important to look at all the angels. But there are a lot of good cops who do good work and get punished by public misconceptions of what cops are. For example when that cop shoved his nightstick into the ass of that dude in the court house, can't remember the case, that's not something a normal and respectable person would do. That's kinda what I was getting at.