Random Cataclysm discussion

[Kaylia]

Dang BoT just became the Naxx Spider Wing. Pugs probably still won't be able to kill Nefarian though.

I killed nef in a pug 2 weeks ago, and that was 1 week after taking it to 6%, so it's definitively going to be doable more reliably. Most pug will do heroic though, no one will want 359 at that point.

[aurik]

The more accurate term is that T11 is going to be Ulduar'd. Won't be worth running after 2-3 weeks of T12 being out.

Kinda sad, because all in all it's been a pretty solid tier. Most of the fights are interesting.

[Meresgi]

It will make gearing up the rest of our raid for Firelands a little easier, as we've lost a few due to stagnation and therefore can't work on hardmodes now, but yeah it will be boring as shit to run after a little while, and even worse to run later on in the tier. Kinda like how people still hate going into Ulduar even for drake runs.

[Arvin]

I mean it makes sense that they're gonna be nerfing previous tier content so people can at least have a chance to see everything. No nerfs to Sinestra either so it'll still be a little challenge for those who get there.

[Kaylia]

The more accurate term is that T11 is going to be Ulduar'd. Won't be worth running after 2-3 weeks of T12 being out.

Kinda sad, because all in all it's been a pretty solid tier. Most of the fights are interesting.

Fireland might be a bottleneck early when people won't be able to clear more than a few encounters. We will still need our valor, and probably wont see that many pieces from the raid itself.

[Tajin]

Dodge: Death Knights, paladins, and warriors no longer receive any bonus to their chance to dodge from Agility. Their base chance to dodge is now a fixed 5%.

am sadface now, will have to replace mah trinkets

[The Stig]

Which trinket?

From what I understand, we still earn dodge from dodge rating gear.

[aurik]

Fireland might be a bottleneck early when people won't be able to clear more than a few encounters. We will still need our valor, and probably wont see that many pieces from the raid itself.

You can get close to capped VP very quickly running trollroics unless they change those back down to 70 per heroic. (and Vault of Tolbavon, which will have a Push oVer Pinata too)

Not seriously expecting T12 normal to give most raid groups much trouble, given that serious groups will be going in there with lots of 372 pieces. T11 was slow going because we were going in with a mishmash of garbage gear, and had yet to separate the wheat from the chaff w.r.t. new raiders.

[Correction]

Tanks rolling on agi trinkets was bullshit anyway. Fuck those guys taking my H. Tia's Grace

[Kaylia]

You can get close to capped VP very quickly running trollroics unless they change those back down to 70 per heroic. (and Vault of Tolbavon, which will have a Push oVer Pinata too)

Not seriously expecting T12 normal to give most raid groups much trouble, given that serious groups will be going in there with lots of 372 pieces. T11 was slow going because we were going in with a mishmash of garbage gear, and had yet to separate the wheat from the chaff w.r.t. new raiders.

I guess you're right, but I hope it won't be roll face to the point where we clear 7/8 after 2 raid night.

[Tajin]

Tanks rolling on agi trinkets was bullshit anyway. Fuck those guys taking my H. Tia's Grace

I got mine fair and square offspec proper roll :D

[Odon]

So anyone care to wager if the new Rated BG win mounts will require 100 wins from 4.2 on instead of being retroactive? Much like how the achievement to get 30k gold from quests isnt retroactive, even though you can clearly see in your statistics how much gold you've gotten from questing.

Probably not, I got my veteran title when they changed the achievements.

[Quicklet]

Anyone know if any of those nerfs are going to affect the heroic modes? There's a blue post saying they're nerfing the normals, and some of the nerfs specifically mention normal mode, but someone pointed out that some of the nerfs will affect spellids that are shared on normal and heroic, like Feedback on Al'akir, which would have to be separated if they were to keep heroic the same as it is now.

My group's 11/12 right now and it would be nice to use T11 heroics to fill in some of the gear while we're starting on Firelands, but all signs are pointing to T12 normals being tuned to be easier than T11 heroics which frankly boggles my mind if that's the case, especially if these 7 bosses are meant to last another 6 months.

[Katlan]

Anybody else see the hot springs in Feralas on the the edge of Sithilus (around 71/74 in Feralas). Its a hot springs resort w/ some new art, new animations, and a lot of work was put into it and there is nothing there. But found that odd

[aurik]

Anyone know if any of those nerfs are going to affect the heroic modes? There's a blue post saying they're nerfing the normals, and some of the nerfs specifically mention normal mode, but someone pointed out that some of the nerfs will affect spellids that are shared on normal and heroic, like Feedback on Al'akir, which would have to be separated if they were to keep heroic the same as it is now.

My group's 11/12 right now and it would be nice to use T11 heroics to fill in some of the gear while we're starting on Firelands, but all signs are pointing to T12 normals being tuned to be easier than T11 heroics which frankly boggles my mind if that's the case, especially if these 7 bosses are meant to last another 6 months.

Some of the changes *may* affect both--that Feedback one is a good point--because Blizzard is either lazy or oblivious (going with the latter) and probably won't spend a whole lot of dev time touching up an obsolete tier. But I'm gonna venture a guess and say no, the HMs won't be nerfed. Historically speaking, T(N+1) normals have been both easier and more rewarding than T(N) HMs since, well, HMs have been introduced.

[Quicklet]

Yeah, I just see it as a missed opportunity to make an already smaller amount of raid content last longer. Unless we see War of the Ancients or some other raid being announced soon after Firelands, that's a long time to play with 7 bosses, and you figure any group in mostly 372s will blow through to at least Rag within the first week.

Adding a soft gating such that groups still in 359s would have reasonable methods to gear up in 365/372 gear over the first month without completely trivializing the normal modes for more progressed guilds would seem like a no-brainer. It's not like anyone would make a distinction between completing T11 heroic content in 4.2 vs doing it in 4.3 or later. A modest (5%?) retuning of healing and dps requirements without removing core mechanics of the fights like they're doing with the normals wouldn't seem out of line. I am speaking from a 10man point of view though. Maybe it's not as needed for 25mans. Trying to carry 1 subpar dps is brutal though on anything we don't already outgear.

[aurik]

It's an opportunity they've missed often in the past. Look at what a waste of brilliant content Ulduar was when they pushed out the turd known as ToC, not only obsoleting T8 but doing so before more people had even fully exhausted the content. Plenty of servers hadn't even got a first Alga25 at that point, let along Yogg0.

Also it's been shown again and again that people HATE gating. I remember in ICC when week 3 of each successive buff came along, people just stopped caring about progression. "Why learn the fight when we can just wait 2 weeks and kill it with no problem" was the attitude.

The real way to fix things would be to keep the previous tier's hardmodes relevant in terms of gear progression, ie the gear should be slightly better than the next tier's normal mode loot. Also step up the release rate of content. The sweet spot is around 2 bosses per month.

My recommendation would be to break releases into major tiers and minor tiers. ~9 bosses per major tier. ~3 bosses per minor tier. HM gear would be a full tier above, minor tier would be half a tier above major tier. That way at any point in time the previous raid HM is superior to the current tier normal, but worse than the current tier HM. And a rate of 2 major and 2 minor releases per year gives us 24 bosses, right in the sweet spot.

[Katlan]

Plenty of servers hadn't even got a first Alga25 at that point, let along Yogg0.

Most servers didn't hit that content until ICC. Don't think expecting servers to hit that type of content is a reasonable expectation.

[Quicklet]

Most servers didn't hit that content until ICC. Don't think expecting servers to hit that type of content is a reasonable expectation.

Yeah. My server didn't have Light of Dawn pop until about 2 months into Cata. My group went back and did LK 10H for shits at 85, and despite the fact that you can ignore practically every mechanic except for Defile, it would not shock me if a good 90% of my server's raiding population just never bothered going back there because it's just not relevant anymore.

[Tajin]

Love me some hyppos.
Edit: spoiler for loltable.

Spoiler: show

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...hippogryph.jpg