Random Cataclysm discussion

[Correction]

and legendary daggers are rogue exclusive, so there goes out the window people who said other classes could use them.

Who was saying this, again?

[Katlan]

Who was saying this, again?

It was assumed that other classes could at least get the FoS since they can "equip" daggers... and that the guild could still get the guild perk or w/e if those other classes could wear. But now its super limited since only rogues can use

[fantasticdan]

Who was saying this, again?

Well, they said they said even combat rogues would want to use both, so you'd figure they could manage the same with enh shamans (and fix it so they don't need exclusively slow/slow weapons in the first place.)

[Meresgi]

Who was saying this, again?

People on MMO-Champion and other forums talking about how hunters/shamans could use the dagger as well, so it wouldnt be just 100% rogue only, or so they thought.

I know you were saying how it's ok that a single class get a legendary, because people will still be farming Firelands for people...which won't happen really because Firelands will be played out and people will devote most of their time to getting normal/heroic Deathwing Raid down.

[Katlan]

One thing I'm really scratching my head about is that they are designing content that is melee retarded so that they need to give melee a dps buff to be competitive. For them to need to do this means melee are going to have significantly less up-time on bosses... and dps buff isnt everything, because this will make encounters not as fun for melee. wtf are they thinking?

[Correction]

which won't happen really because Firelands will be played out and people will devote most of their time to getting normal/heroic Deathwing Raid down.

This wasn't true of Val'anyr, Warglaives of Azzinoth or Thunderfury once their respective raiding tiers were obsolesced, so I wonder why you're so sure Dragonwrath is some kind of exception.

[Meresgi]

This wasn't true of Val'anyr, Warglaives of Azzinoth or Thunderfury once their respective raiding tiers were obsolesced, so I wonder why you're so sure Dragonwrath is some kind of exception.

Did you really have people going back to MC to farm random drops from Garr/baron for Thunderfury? I really don't think so, sure SOME guilds may have but the vast majority saw it as a huge waste of time when you could just kill a boss in AQ40/Naxx and get something better. Now if you're talking about with BWL, then yes people were farming that, because people were still farming MC for gear, because back in PreBC you had a chain of content you had to work up through and couldn't just hop in.

I don't know many guilds who actually farmed Ulduar's hammer when ToC came out, but i'm sure there were a few seeing as how simplistic ToC was, but when ICC came out, how many people went back to farm Ulduar for the hammer?

Dragonwrath is part of Firelands, and will still require some time commitment to obtain since they nerfed the heroic drop rates and it takes a long time to get it on normal...now is your guild really going to go back and farm that for multiple people when Deathwing 4.3 comes out? Sure maybe for the 2 guys who have 40-50% of the shards they need you can form up a 10man on off days and go back in, but who is going to devote raid time to doing that?

Hell half the raid won't show up because most people are only concerned with getting gear for themselves out of the new raid, and they won't view the marginal dps difference between the legendary staff and w/e staff drops off Deathwing as being that big. Who knows, Deathwing Heroic's staff might even be better then the legendary or very close to it.

Warglaives were another rare drop item and not a quest, so a lot of people after "farming" them for a long period of time gave up even hoping to see them, even well before SWP was released. I know 2 guilds on my old server where both had 3-4 rogues with dual glaives, and then another guild had been killing Illidan non stop for weeks and didn't even have a single part of the set. Any guild that would have wasted content advancement time in SWP to go back and farm Illidan for a minor chance at a legendary is either hardcore to a far extreme with plenty of time on their hands, or completely stuck at a boss in SWP and view a set of glaives as the key...which is pointless.

[Mortilox]

Deathwing drops weapons, so no other boss will probably drop any, because unlike ICC where Arthas dropped weapons and other bosses did as well, we're talking 4 less bosses.

If it's like firelands then there will be weapons from the first few bosses, and Deathwing will drop ones a few ilevels higher and have shiny models.

My biggest peeve will be if they don't make those weapons UNIQUE. I'm so sick of "ok it has 6 extra ilevel so x extra weapon damage, agility, haste/crit ect" I want to see more weapon procs which actually make you stop and go "woah, that's cool". Who the fuck did they have working on weapons when ICC25 was released? when Ruby sanctum was released?

I WANT THAT MAN BACK ON THE JOB. Forever disappointed that Sulfuras, The Extinguished Hand does not have a chance on hit to launch a fireball. even a weak fireball.

also fuck them for reusing boss models

[Meresgi]

If it's like firelands then there will be weapons from the first few bosses, and Deathwing will drop ones a few ilevels higher and have shiny models.

My biggest peeve will be if they don't make those weapons UNIQUE. I'm so sick of "ok it has 6 extra ilevel so x extra weapon damage, agility, haste/crit ect" I want to see more weapon procs which actually make you stop and go "woah, that's cool". Who the fuck did they have working on weapons when ICC25 was released? when Ruby sanctum was released?

I WANT THAT MAN BACK ON THE JOB. Forever disappointed that Sulfuras, The Extinguished Hand does not have a chance on hit to launch a fireball. even a weak fireball.

also fuck them for reusing boss models

Wasn't that something they talked about too for Cataclysm? I remember Blizzard saying that they loved the extra stuff on weapons from ICC and that fans liked it too, and that we would see a lot more of them...yet here we are almost at the end without seeing any? Shit we don't even have a trinket like Saurafang's that morphs us.

[fantasticdan]

Why can't my blood elf characters look like this?

Spoiler: show

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images.../patch43_6.jpg

[Correction]

Did you really have people going back to MC to farm random drops from Garr/baron for Thunderfury? I really don't think so, sure SOME guilds may have but the vast majority saw it as a huge waste of time when you could just kill a boss in AQ40/Naxx and get something better. Now if you're talking about with BWL, then yes people were farming that, because people were still farming MC for gear, because back in PreBC you had a chain of content you had to work up through and couldn't just hop in.

Thunderfury served as a viable tanking weapon well into level 70 raiding content, FYI. It only dropped from that throne when they nerfed the threat on the chain slow proc.

I can't believe we're arguing over whether or not guilds seriously equipped to 'farm' multiple legendaries, already in the extreme minority of guilds, will continue to min/max their guilds by finishing incomplete Dragonwraths when 4.3 comes out. I wasn't predicting what the majority of all guilds currently in Firelands would do. If you want a legengary weapon, and aren't already in a guild working on its 1st/2nd staff with steady progress, then my prediction never applied to you. I'm just saying there's a pattern of behavior for the top guilds, and that behavior is to get last-tier legendaries as their value continues into the next raiding tier. If your guild doesn't even have its first staff half done by now then I don't see how you can at all be upset that 'only rogues' get legendaries next patch.

[FailureMidgard]

Melee has been suboptimal virtually always. Sure there were a few fights they were perfectly fine on and not a liability (haha) and a few fights that DPS warriors just raped on...and of course there were glaives.

That being said, melee has essentially always been worse than ranged to have in the raid (regardless of DPS). You just lose out on ease of doing stuff with melee. I'm not sure Blizzard understands that this is the problem...being unable to stay on target does hurt their dps (as well as being forced to melee from the front, esp in 10m), aka any fight you have to swap, but even shit like Baleroc 10...try with 5 melee and the fight gets way harder, not because of DPS output, but because of clutter in a small area and other general shitty things. Honestly, I feel like it's a goodish change for 10m, but a pretty bad idea for 25s. At least on 25, its realistic for example on Rag to have the tank go far to one side, and put a cluster of people that can melee from the back...2healing on 10m-h, you really want both healers in range of the tank, so the melee has to basically be in front also. Anyway, a lot of people (self included) have been spouting the "melee sucks" thing for a while now, but making them do more damage is really not the answer. :/

As for epic gems, people realize they've used a drop gem model before? (BT/Hyjal) At the start they were somewhat precious (which is okay), towards the end it wasn't hard to get them. The only real problem with it is lack of red gems (and it may even be a bandaid way for blizzard to try to "fix" the use red everywhere issue). The bigger problem is the fact they say they don't want to buff professions. So grats smiths, and JCs are getting fucked over. Retarded.

[aurik]

Nobody cares about top guilds. Honestly those 300 people can go fuck themselves in the grand scheme of things.

[Boyiee]

I don't see how smiths and JC's are getting fucked over. Also, why would blizzard want to bandaid red gems everywhere, they designed it that way. That's what they wanted.

[fantasticdan]

I don't see how smiths and JC's are getting fucked over. Also, why would blizzard want to bandaid red gems everywhere, they designed it that way. That's what they wanted.

Blacksmiths will need to pay for the 2 extra epic gems in their sockets, and if they don't have them they'll simply be (slightly) behind every other crafting profession.

JC in the sense that they won't be able to prospect epic gems I guess, and rather just cut them for tips/markup. It's a nerf to alchemy in that regard compared to last expansion as well. Honestly, I don't see what their motivation is to return epic gems to a high priced 'elite' commodity. Just seems like one more thing to annoy a lot of players.

[Correction]

Blacksmiths will need to pay for the 2 extra epic gems in their sockets, and if they don't have them they'll simply be (slightly) behind every other crafting profession.

What? 2 bonus slots with 2 blue gems > zero bonus slots. Are the other crafting professions getting some kind of bonus in 4.3 that will cause BS to fall behind?

The epic gem exclusivity won't be a forever thing.

[Correction]

hm double posts

[fantasticdan]

What? 2 bonus slots with 2 blue gems > zero bonus slots. Are the other crafting professions getting some kind of bonus in 4.3 that will cause BS to fall behind?

The epic gem exclusivity won't be a forever thing.

Other professions will get their bonuses bumped up to match x2 epic gems like in wotlk I'm sure. IE: let's say epic gems are +60 primary stat, ring enchants get bumped up to +60 each, LW wrist enchant gets +40 added, etc. A BS is penalized if he doesn't want to drop the gold on the extra 2 epic gems, and even if he does, he's heavily taxed for it compared to other professions.

And as for "exclusivity of epic gems", in TBC they also dropped in heroics (well, slightly worse BoP ones), BT was out for a long ass time, and they were eventually sold for badges (and honor?). If epic gems are exclusively available from the last raid of the expansion, they will remain fairly exclusive/stupidly expensive, unless they drop like candy.

[FailureMidgard]

L: Will we be seeing epic gems in 4.3?

GS: Great question, and yes, you will! The way we're hoping to set it up, and we kind of have this working but things could change before we go live, is when you kill a boss on normal or heroic mode, each player gets a geode, and when they open the geode there's a chance they may find an epic gem inside. If not, it'll have blue gems or something like that. We really want it to feel like an individual reward, and not something that the raid leader gets to have fun in deciding who gets the gems, or they all go to the guild bank or something. We really want it to feel like an individual reward.

They'll be somewhat rare. It may take the entire content cycle before someone has replaced every red gem they have, but they won't be so rare that you won't see them.

L: How is that going to work with profession bonuses? Blacksmithing with its extra sockets, assuming that you could get ahold of a full set of epic gems, seems like it would all of a sudden become the best profession.

GS: I think the epic gems are like 10 stat points over the current ones, so it's a nice boost, but hopefully it won't push everyone towards Blacksmithing.

L: So you'd only end up with like 20 extra Strength as a Blacksmith.

GS: Yeah, something like that.

http://www.tankspot.com/


Sorry, you misread what I said. JC is getting fucked. And grats smith for getting more than everyone else, because it sounds like they don't plan to buff professions.

If epic gems are +50 per stat, smithing is now +100 stat, JC is now +51 stat, and others remain at +80. So Smith is getting a buff, JC is getting fucked.

{Edit: I put +61 instead of 51, my bad!}

[Correction]

ouch yeah let's hope they fix that by buffing chimera's eyes or giving JCs something else like BoP metas.