Random Cataclysm discussion

[aurik]

With 3 heals you should probably go green-yellow or yellow-green, healers shouldn't need the buffs and can just use CDs to deal with the elementium bolt. With 2 heals you will want to leave green and yellow for later. It's kind of a clever fight that way, you can tune the type of difficulty to your particular comp's strengths. In particular, I'm guessing a 1-tank strategy would require green last.

We went green yellow red blue but I really want to suggest putting yellow last because aside from bugs, the occasional random gibbage with elementium bolt + impale or whomp was the only thing screwing up phase 1.

[FailureMidgard]

That comment went right over ur head.

Still missing it I guess.

What platform order did you do Midgar? I'm guessing Green > Bronze > Blue > red? In our 10man we were doing Green > Blue > Bronze > red to make sure we only had one elementium bolt impact to save the healers mana. We could get into phase 2 quite often, but it all fell apart on the 2nd set of adds that came out, since when they died, we had time to get Deathwing to 3% before the overwhelming fire AoE from him did us in.

We did blue>green>bronze>red. Elementium Bolt sans bronze was without a doubt the worst part of the fight for us. Blue seems quite useless to us (our altraid is managing the AoE fine without it) in 10man. As for P2, we had the 2nd set of adds pop, killed the tentacles, then burned Deathwing (like 2mil hp left) when the tanked adds popped. Had 0 deaths iirc.

With 3 heals you should probably go green-yellow or yellow-green, healers shouldn't need the buffs and can just use CDs to deal with the elementium bolt. With 2 heals you will want to leave green and yellow for later. It's kind of a clever fight that way, you can tune the type of difficulty to your particular comp's strengths. In particular, I'm guessing a 1-tank strategy would require green last.

Green isn't too important for 2 heals either TBQH. Blue definitely becomes more important with 3 heals though due to regenerative bloods. Even with 3 heals though, I still see bronze being a bitch (it's not really mana for us, it's tentacle smash + explosion together).

We went green yellow red blue but I really want to suggest putting yellow last because aside from bugs, the occasional random gibbage with elementium bolt + impale or whomp was the only thing screwing up phase 1.

Yea that! Have ya killed it yet? I really think bronze early is bad in 10man, though supposedly easy in 25s.



Overall comments/tips that may help some people:

1. Regenerative Bloods: They heal at 100 energy, it's very predictable...if you aoe them as they spawn (without blue), you lose a couple seconds and don't have as much warning, making it harder (low on focus/energy, wasting gcds to get effects started, etc). Instead, group them up, let them heal once (hit 100 energy), then open up after they hit 100 energy. This allows people to do more aoe and prep:

Hunter's can pre-drop trap (it ticks for >10sec, lets you use said GCD ahead of time) and ensure they have 10 focus.
DoT classes can tab dot before, priests can time their mindblast to get mastery up before the AoE starts, warlocks can get some initial GCDs off first, Boomkins can make shrooms aren't misplaced.
Shaman can pre-EQ and flame shock.
Rogues can either prestack deadly, or build cp/be ready to mut/fan spam, pool energy, etc.

All in all, it made the AoE without blue significantly easier for us.

2. Understand pacing and healing. DPS at the start of a platform doesn't matter. Going slower and allowing healers to Tide/Vate/Treeform/(holy)Tranq/etc every platform helps. At the start of the platform, there is nothing to heal. If you're killing the platform barely in time before the enrage, ignore this. If you're beating it by a minute (aka with 2heals), you can land on the platform, not DPS the claw at all...kill the tentacle, kill the AoE shit, THEN start dpsing claw. Dmg on raid gets higher relative to the claw's HP, nothing else. Leaving the claw at higher percentages longer means CDs are up every platform basically + spirit regen time.

3. Elementium Bolt.
If you have a pally tank and you only take 1 of these, have the pally tank be the 1 not tanking when the bolt lands, can bubble himself and LoH the 2nd tank...tell the healers to 100% ignore that 2nd tank. If he gets LoH'd, then drops low again, first tank can taunt at full HP. It really does help prevent the smash + bolt shit from killing from our experience when the 2 healers can kinda ignore the tank and get people topped off.

[Kaylia]

Still missing it I guess.

He was talking about Heroic Fireland gears.

The different strategies that are possible for a group that is done with Heroic Fireland may not be possible (or easily doable) for a group that is still wearing ilvl 378.

[Meresgi]

We did the 1 tank strat, and killed him on the 2nd try of the night. Had a snag at the end and tank died just as we killed the last big add, and then we got it. Still seems tuned very tight if a 1 tank strat is one of the few viable options along with 2 healer strat.

Cant wait to do it in LFR >.>

[FailureMidgard]

He was talking about Heroic Fireland gears.

The different strategies that are possible for a group that is done with Heroic Fireland may not be possible (or easily doable) for a group that is still wearing ilvl 378.

Okay, I realized that, except he said "a raid with no 391 or 397". And I'm saying you can't fight it with 0 397...you killed 7 bosses that dropped 2 397s a piece, every single 1 being an upgrade if you were in full 378, so still not sure what I missed. I agree that gear makes it easier, and I never said it should be a pushover for everyone, just that it wasn't tightly tuned...

We did the 1 tank strat, and killed him on the 2nd try of the night. Had a snag at the end and tank died just as we killed the last big add, and then we got it. Still seems tuned very tight if a 1 tank strat is one of the few viable options along with 2 healer strat.

Cant wait to do it in LFR >.>

Tightly tuned means "there is 1 way to do it and you're gonna end up short when you make mistakes." The sheer fact there's like 5 different ways to do it is by definition NOT tightly tuned.

Also, I have no idea what you mean by a "2healer strat"...I think most 10mans run with 2healer as the default and 3healer is the oddball.

[Kaylia]

If you take his comment literally, that's what he said. It's obviously not what he meant tho.

14 pieces, assuming no rot in a 10man (which is unlikely to be the case), doesn't even replace 10% of your gears. It's not going to make a huge difference.

[hopefulki]

We did green > yellow > blue > red on 25m.

About 99.9% sure Green > Red > Yellow > Blue is the best way of doing that, but we chose differently for the first kill.

Going with G>R>Y>B next week and should be easier.

*EDIT*: 5% wipe on our alt run, G > R > Y > B, we did Red last first but DPS was too tight for slightly undergeared alts. Fight makes the healers work though!

[Siniroth]

...I think most 10mans run with 2healer as the default and 3healer is the oddball.

Almost certainly, my guild has been three healing completely unnecessarily (I think we only had trouble during the balls fucking green yellow red globules, but fuck that combination with a rusty jackhammer), next week I'm going back to dps except for that fight

Note: we only got to ultraxion and FADING LIGHT IS HARD and people suck and had to leave so no actual experience, but unless it ramps up significantly 3healing won't be necessary)

[aurik]

Still missing it I guess.

We did blue>green>bronze>red. Elementium Bolt sans bronze was without a doubt the worst part of the fight for us. Blue seems quite useless to us (our altraid is managing the AoE fine without it) in 10man. As for P2, we had the 2nd set of adds pop, killed the tentacles, then burned Deathwing (like 2mil hp left) when the tanked adds popped. Had 0 deaths iirc.



Green isn't too important for 2 heals either TBQH. Blue definitely becomes more important with 3 heals though due to regenerative bloods. Even with 3 heals though, I still see bronze being a bitch (it's not really mana for us, it's tentacle smash + explosion together).



Yea that! Have ya killed it yet? I really think bronze early is bad in 10man, though supposedly easy in 25s.



Overall comments/tips that may help some people:

1. Regenerative Bloods: They heal at 100 energy, it's very predictable...if you aoe them as they spawn (without blue), you lose a couple seconds and don't have as much warning, making it harder (low on focus/energy, wasting gcds to get effects started, etc). Instead, group them up, let them heal once (hit 100 energy), then open up after they hit 100 energy. This allows people to do more aoe and prep:

Hunter's can pre-drop trap (it ticks for >10sec, lets you use said GCD ahead of time) and ensure they have 10 focus.
DoT classes can tab dot before, priests can time their mindblast to get mastery up before the AoE starts, warlocks can get some initial GCDs off first, Boomkins can make shrooms aren't misplaced.
Shaman can pre-EQ and flame shock.
Rogues can either prestack deadly, or build cp/be ready to mut/fan spam, pool energy, etc.

All in all, it made the AoE without blue significantly easier for us.

2. Understand pacing and healing. DPS at the start of a platform doesn't matter. Going slower and allowing healers to Tide/Vate/Treeform/(holy)Tranq/etc every platform helps. At the start of the platform, there is nothing to heal. If you're killing the platform barely in time before the enrage, ignore this. If you're beating it by a minute (aka with 2heals), you can land on the platform, not DPS the claw at all...kill the tentacle, kill the AoE shit, THEN start dpsing claw. Dmg on raid gets higher relative to the claw's HP, nothing else. Leaving the claw at higher percentages longer means CDs are up every platform basically + spirit regen time.

3. Elementium Bolt.
If you have a pally tank and you only take 1 of these, have the pally tank be the 1 not tanking when the bolt lands, can bubble himself and LoH the 2nd tank...tell the healers to 100% ignore that 2nd tank. If he gets LoH'd, then drops low again, first tank can taunt at full HP. It really does help prevent the smash + bolt shit from killing from our experience when the 2 healers can kinda ignore the tank and get people topped off.

Haven't been back since Wednesday when many our attempts ended up with DW mocking us and not landing at 20%. Will definitely suggest yellow last or second last next week, because that damage is seriously a pain in 10man. With 3 heals, it really required 2 healer CDs (tranq + AM for the first, totem + AM for the second) per bolt, and even then a badly timed whomp on 3+ people was very hard to deal with.

Regenerative bloods are quite easy if EVERYONE is blowing them up. Healers should be taking a moment to use their AoE here too, I get 20-30k from popping a 3-set of mushrooms. Does the yellow timezone also slow down their regeneration rate?

In any case, yellow gives 20% flat haste to everyone which is almost as good for dps as the 20% flat damage that blue gives, still buffs healers, and removes the need for major CD use every platform which means it can easily be used for the second set of blossoms.

[FailureMidgard]

Siniroth - Ultraxion's damage does ramp up significantly at lower HP...still 2healable. I went with a pugish group on my rogue, they 3healed it and it enraged at 2-5% like 2-3 times in a row.

Haven't been back since Wednesday when many our attempts ended up with DW mocking us and not landing at 20%. Will definitely suggest yellow last or second last next week, because that damage is seriously a pain in 10man. With 3 heals, it really required 2 healer CDs (tranq + AM for the first, totem + AM for the second) per bolt, and even then a badly timed whomp on 3+ people was very hard to deal with.

We use virtually every cooldown we can for it...I think we double stacked AM and Prot Pally raid wall, had people using deterrence/iceblock/cloak/etc for the impact, tank without a mob bubbled and LoHed the tanking tank (who also shield walled). Didn't seem that bad w/ 2 healers, just need to do whatever ya can to mitigate it.

Regenerative bloods are quite easy if EVERYONE is blowing them up. Healers should be taking a moment to use their AoE here too, I get 20-30k from popping a 3-set of mushrooms. Does the yellow timezone also slow down their regeneration rate?

No, but it does slow the debuff application that they put on the tank (as well as their damage output). Also, not every healer has a good AoE. I fully agree with Resto druids using mushrooms, but Holy Nova isn't worth the mana.

In any case, yellow gives 20% flat haste to everyone which is almost as good for dps as the 20% flat damage that blue gives, still buffs healers, and removes the need for major CD use every platform which means it can easily be used for the second set of blossoms.

For general DPS, sure...the spellweave thing that Kalecgos provides makes the AoE trivial though, not the 20% dmg.

[Meresgi]

For the corruption whomps too, its easy to get them to only hit 1 person, just have to fan out. The tooltip says it hits in a cone, but from what we say, standing roughly 1-2 feet to the side of another person was more then enough room to not take any damage.

[aurik]

Hard to get that to happen when you're clumping up for Shaman Totem or a melee blowing up the elementium bolt.

[Siniroth]

Siniroth - Ultraxion's damage does ramp up significantly at lower HP...still 2healable. I went with a pugish group on my rogue, they 3healed it and it enraged at 2-5% like 2-3 times in a row.

I mean the rest of the bosses, not Ultraxion himself, we're confident we can two heal that one, we had just been 3 healing because our main issue with fights tends to be people being dumb and standing in shit, next week I'm going to dps everything but Yor'sahj I think.

Holy Nova isn't worth the mana.

Mind Sear is worth one or two casts if you let it fully tick if you absolutely need AoE dps. I only touch Holy Nova when I'm fucking bored (or in WoE, because I'm disc, and blanketing divine aegis as we run around is delicious fun)

[Kaylia]

I don't understand why the dragon lost their power at the end of Dragon Soul. Is it because put all their power in the Dragon soul and used it?

[BadKarma]

I don't understand why the dragon lost their power at the end of Dragon Soul. Is it because put all their power in the Dragon soul and used it?

Same thing happened when they created the dragon soul in the first place.

[Ezek]

I haven't even played this game in almost 2 years and these guys still make me lol:

http://www.exo-guild.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5157

The old guildies that I still talk to note that they've been raiding nonstop since the servers went up, they might finally be stopping now though (6:15AM EST edit: nvm, they're still going, 10am atm~), lol. Apparently almost a dozen of them got a temporary ban for something? I don't even know. I just immediately said "SO, IS THIS YOUR YOGG SARON OF CATA" as soon as I heard the keyword "ban" pop up.

[Gulkeeva]

My pug 10man groups been doing 3 healers for alot of fights, like the 3 slimes, ultraxion, and airship. Although there is some dps struggling .. namely the fire mage and spriest, both which seem to stay around the 20-25K dps range... (I'm like the only one that can do/stay above 30K, although the warrior gets close sometimes, probably from cleave spam)

Here's to hoping my 2 day pug 10man can clear 8/8 this week O_o

[Arvin]

I haven't even played this game in almost 2 years and these guys still make me lol:

http://www.exo-guild.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5157

The old guildies that I still talk to note that they've been raiding nonstop since the servers went up, they might finally be stopping now though (6:15AM EST edit: nvm, they're still going, 10am atm~), lol. Apparently almost a dozen of them got a temporary ban for something? I don't even know. I just immediately said "SO, IS THIS YOUR YOGG SARON OF CATA" as soon as I heard the keyword "ban" pop up.

lol

[Boyiee]

How can anyone stand reading that forum. Gigantic animated gif avatars and sigs and tiny tiny text.

[Plow]

so apparently world first heroic spine was 7 mages, 5 rogues

oh and 4 shaman lol