Random Cataclysm discussion

[Norellicus]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ta-Build-13117

Blood-Caked Blade is now a Tier 3 talent, down from Tier 2.

Can't get an 11 pointer in a sub tree.

[The Stig]

Oh.

The tree I accessed is out of date then.

Thanks

[Clemz]

I'm not seeing what you're giving up to get points in AMS/AMZ? Unless you're dropping points from Contagion and Runic Corruption? Also seems you're assuming that unholy will continue to play in a different presence. With 10% increased attack speed(talented to 15%, which I'm aware is baseline now), as well as increased rune regeneration rate, I'm not entirely sure that will be the case.

[Galkaeater]

unholy pres also decreases your global cooldown to 1 second

[Clemz]

Well right, but it does that currently as well, I was more trying to point out the increased rune regeneration rate being added.

[The Stig]

I just messed with the tree again, and it doesn't seem like I'm dropping much or anything at all. I just say that by default because I'm bound to run into someone who suggests otherwise, so I just said it first to kinda protect myself =p

I left out Resilient Infection and Unholy Frenzy though, they seem least useful to me overall, perhaps might drop a point in frenzy for those "all out" moments. Sudden Doom doesn't look too useful but then again if Unholy presence significantly changes gameplay due to the haste involved, you'll never know.

I'm just going all by what I've learnt, I've not tried/played the beta -- will wait/research/read up on it when the dust settles of course.

[Clemz]

Yeah, I was just interested to see what others are looking at in the trees. This is what I am currently planning to use in beta when I get around to leveling my DK to 85, here: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#jbGZhZcucdfcodfo.

Unholy Frenzy is just Hysteria renamed and moved to a DPS tree, you can still cast it on yourself though the tooltip is a little vague in that regard. I also wouldn't give up Sudden Doom for anything, free death coils are free death coils. Granted, I could probably drop the 3 in Runic Power Mastery and the 2 in Improved Blood Tap, but I'm not seeing much else in Unholy that I'd want to take over either of those.

[The Stig]

My plan was to move the 3 from Sudden Doom to Butchery and Runic Mastery as I think I could get more/enough Runic Power to power my Death Coils instead of relying on a proc rate of 15% on a slow weapon (unless it counts on the abilities too?). Just a thought. And then dump the rest in Bladed Armor and call it a day.

[Ishido]

Unholy Frenzy is nowhere near as powerful as Hysteria from the looks of it. Would be nice if DKs could cast it on themselves now though, since Hysteria is a bit shitty in the fact that you see no gains yourself from seriously buffing another DPS (and most people won't recognize that you did it).

I will miss my Hysteria... even though I almost never get it.

[Clemz]

I actually completely forgot about the fact that it was changed to haste over increased physical damage. It makes it slightly more useful on physical DPS that aren't rogues or warriors though. You can cast Hysteria on yourself as it is now, I use it on myself more than on other DPS while I'm tanking because odds are the DPS you get in the dungeon finder are awful.

[The Stig]

I respecced for about 7 weeks on Blood to include hysteria and DRW just to see them, but I forgot I spec'd into it until I went to reset (for optimal threat/ICC raid tank), so I never got a chance to play with it

(when I reconfigured my actionbar I forgot I had hysteria and was 99% focused onto DRW, and then to my disappointment a puny weapon floated out of nowhere which destroyed all excitement I had for it, but felt too cheap to reset)

[The Stig]

Bump:

DK's can rune strike freely now in Blood Presence as long as you have 20 RP

[Meko]

How is tanking in Cata? I've got a feral tank but I've been toying with the idea of finishing my pally (73) or my DK (64) before the expansion. I've been wanting a plate class as I've never level capped one but I'm curious as to what people think about the tanking going into Cata. Which tanks are working out the best?

[The Stig]

Can't really speak but there seems to be a large amount of fuss over Paladins in the last few blue posts?

From what I can gather, it kinda stemmed on how DKs have to "work hard" in an intensive manner to establish and hold threat.

Everyone else just needs to hit like a few buttons

It sounds like they're readjusting it so the other classes have to work a bit harder (or in an more intensive manner) to remain on the ball, whereas DKs are getting help with their AoE and rune starved situations

Just my opinion on it anyway, I find Paladin tanking at 65 really really really really easy and relaxing, coming from a DK tank. Never tried Druid or Warrior yet.

[Correction]

It's like tanking in Vanilla. A lot more target switching, DPS ACTUALLY HAS TO WAIT before they start DPSing, and you actually have to use your defensive cooldowns outside of raids.

It's a lot more button mashing, I reserve judgment on whether or not it's more fun to mash tab + instant attack over mashing Thunderclap on cooldown.

[Meko]

Yea, I tanked for a while on my pally which is 73. I like healing and DPS'ing as a pally too. It's all pretty simple in it's current state.

[The Stig]

DK's Heart Strike will hit 2 additional targets now instead of 1, which allows a bit more AoE threat instead of the standard DnD and Blood Boil. But the restrictions with runes made it harder to hold AoE threat. My jealousy with the other classes, i.e. a RL friend who has a Warrior tank is that he can forever spam Thunder(something) and then cleave away and still hold threat optimally. And then they tell me Bears simply maul maul maul swipe maul maul. Then I've tried Paladin, not at raid level tho, myself, which is just hurl shield, fart, hammer, judge, repeat

I enjoy it tho, the way when I tank on DK I have to kinda stay alert. I do tab target but I am only limited to so many Icy Touches, which in a 3+ mob situation I'm restricted and held back by runes. Hence, this is kinda what is being address from the notes I've been keeping up to date with, but at the same time they're making the other 3 classes work a bit more.

There are no DK tanks in my guild but all they do is tell me to spam Icy Touch.... which I do, but I can only do it up to 3 times in a row and more if I got Death Runes, otherwise I'm stuck in temporary limbo (will heart strike rune strike or whatever else if runes are up, but not Icy Touch), and that's against a single target. In multi targets I can only afford 1 additional Icy Touch because DnD will use up 3 runes.... and then I'm stuck temporarily again until my runes come back up.

I'm half hoping the Warrior and Paladin tank in my guild will go emo and then I can jump in as tank instead, because they'll say "it's hard now" whereas I've been fine tuned to such difficulty already XD

Someone correct me if I am wrong, I am going off the fantasies in my head.

[Meph]

I just leveled up a prot war after having a DK and pally fairly geared up already and I gotta say I gotta work way harder on war to keep aggro. Like Ive said earlier, for random dungeons (aoe-tanking) I just go with frost and spam HB+BB to keep aggro, pally is just...well, pally..best aoe-tank hands down. When it comes to single-target-tanking on DK I just to IT-PS-DS-HS-DC-DS-DS-HS-HS-DC-repeat

[Kaylia]

How is tanking in Cata? I've got a feral tank but I've been toying with the idea of finishing my pally (73) or my DK (64) before the expansion. I've been wanting a plate class as I've never level capped one but I'm curious as to what people think about the tanking going into Cata. Which tanks are working out the best?

It's like tanking in FFXI. You take a lot of dmg, hit weak, and lose threat quite often. That being side, you're still needed in every fight or healer will run out of mana too fast.

In overall, the combat system was slowed down a lot. You don't get instagibbed anymore, but in exchange, you have to switch target more often because player's aoe will pull threat off you.


If you liked tanking before, you will still like it, unless being a god amongst man was your favorite part. My only issues atm is aoe breaking crowd control. It makes 3/4 of my move useless on paladin (especially avenger shield that I use to gather monsters) when something is cc'd at the wrong location.

[Tricen]

Cata is going to be fun when it comes to trash since WOTLK taught people how to mindlessly AoE.