Random Cataclysm discussion

[Norellicus]

Prison and upper city are the most mundane boring pieces of shit in the whole place, and that's really where the problem lies; you have to do that to get to the good parts, but people have the attention span of goldfish and almost always drop out before you even get to say, the Shadowforge lock.

One can only do the Ring of Law and Incendius or whatever his name is so many times before you go nuts.

[Kaylia]

The point isnt to make a huge instance with 10 billions pull, but one where you can run around freely while dodging most fights, where you meet friendly npc (ex: dwarf tavern), and where there is more to do than 4 bosses separated by a few pulls Linear instance are overdone, I want diversity.

I agree BRD had many annoying things, but add a few teleports (like ulduar/icc), make it prettier (like any cataclysm instance), and remove half of the monsters on your way, and you get an epic dungeons.

[Eaglestrike]

Sounds like you want a 5-man with 12 bosses with just a couple mobs on a path in between them. You just want multiple options, even though you'll do the same linear path each time (because groups will have one way they "always" do it) and you'll just be stuck in an instance for 12 bosses.

[Norellicus]

Just make it a series of wings, something like upper city lower city and caverns or something. Caverns would cover the elementals and shit, lower city would be prisons and common areas (perhaps ending at grim guzzler), upper city would be the sanitarium and throne room and such.

Bam, instant diversity without the insanity. And set them up in sequence like you have to open the shadowforge lock in lower city (put it after last boss or something, idk) to be able to enter upper city, etc.

btw- I'm of the opinion that trash shouldn't be optional, but it needs to be like 5-10 packs between bosses, max.

[Correction]

ten packs of trash is a lot. I think there are 10 pulls between most BRD bosses already, it just feels like more since so many of those pulls have 4-5 mobs each.

[Kaylia]

Sounds like you want a 5-man with 12 bosses with just a couple mobs on a path in between them. You just want multiple options, even though you'll do the same linear path each time (because groups will have one way they "always" do it) and you'll just be stuck in an instance for 12 bosses.

Of course, everything will be boring after x try, but the the instance that leave me with a good impression the first time will usually last longer (before I'm fed up)

Anyway, all I want is a dungeon that make me feel like I'm raiding something meaningful and appropriate to the lore. If I'm raiding a city, I'm expecting crapload of people, and a ton of differents areas.

btw- I'm of the opinion that trash shouldn't be optional, but it needs to be like 5-10 packs between bosses, max.

So, pit of saron was a bad instance because no one ever pulled the 4-5 pulls on the left side?

I don't understand this, leaving pull unarmed isn't a bad thing in itself, especially if you're raiding a bad guy hangout that is suposed to hold an army.

[Siniroth]

I like the thought of certain necessary trash, where you could probably find a way to skip but boss will be like 'yo bitches come help me out'. Not every single mob in the instance up to that point, but maybe a roomwide alert type idea, or depending on the particular boss more (I always thought that their king being attacked would make every Dark Iron dwarf in the instance bumrush the throne room, but that's just me)

[The Stig]

I'm happy as long as they don't put shit like Halls of Stone in again :>

(I more or less just hate that escort/guard NPC boss, seems unnecessarily long)

[Kaylia]

Yeah. Stratolme, HoS and HoR are my least favorite instance...I want to go at the fastest pace we can handle it. These forced slow down piss off. They can be pretty fun when you're getting overwhelmed, but the moment it become face roll, it's a torture.

[Eaglestrike]

I don't really see the point in telling them to add/design a bunch of mobs purely to get skipped.

[Kaylia]

To add some realism and improve the immmersion? It's not like copy pasting trash take more than 5 seconds.


Your argument could be used to make every dungeon worthless. I mean, they could chain identical rooms back to back, with a boss at the end. It would serve the exact same purpose as the dungeon right now. Why bother making unique environment for each dungeon if all you want is to fights a few pulls followed by a boss.


And doding trash can be fun. That's one of the thing I miss the most from FFXI (ex: like Huzhoi palace_. The penalty for aggroing isnt too bad, but dodging the monsters itself is a gameplay mechanics that require atttention.

[Eaglestrike]

You think that if you're attacking a base, some of the guys there are going to let you just waltz by? That's not fucking real, if you're making big noise, like you typically are in most dungeons, you should be attracting people to you, you should not be skipping ANYTHING because they're all either in the way of their leader or coming after you wherever you are. It makes no sense at all for the Twilight Zealots to let you walk past them and kill their leader, they worship that guy more than their own life. That's not realistic at all.

[Kaylia]

That's kinda retarded. If the monster doesnt aggro, it never saw you, the end. Why would he run to save his master if he doesnt know about it? And you have elementals, beast, demon... it's not like there is only smart human on your way.

[Tajin]

I hate having to dodge the place a la FFXI, its one of the things I hated most about XI, having to fucking sneak my way over everything because you needed a fucking army to handle all the stupid shit.

[Kaylia]

Yeah yeah, i get it. You like rolling your face over the keyboard.


I mean, who would want diversity in their instance? It's much more fun to the same mindless trash over and over repeating the same 4 macro.

[Siniroth]

Why would he run to save his master if he doesnt know about it?

Why would a long standing kingdom of dwarves not have some alert system in place?

[Kaylia]

Why would a long standing kingdom of dwarves not have some alert system in place?

Because it's a game? Because it wouldnt always make great gameplay if there was a crapload of units going after you nonstop?

[Siniroth]

I'm not saying always, but it seriously breaks the realism and immersion (your words) when I can sneak through BRD and pull their KING and only dwarves right there even acknowledge it, and nothing happens to even suggest someone's going to alert anyone to the trespassing, and once said immediate mobs are dead I can sit there and let the king beat on me for as long as I choose and not a single other NPC will even come and check on him.

That being said, random say.... houndmaster dude? Yeah, I should be able to pull him and not have any NPC give a fuck

[Kaylia]

Then just ask Blizzard for more tunnel filled with pull#1 -> pull#2 -> Boss#1 -> pull#3 -> pull#4 ->Boss #5, since you find them so exciting. They don't need to name monsters or fill the place with a beautiful landscape, creating an immersive world is worthless.


I can use extreme case as well, but I don't think what I'm asking for is completely ridiculous. They are already doing it for raid very often, ao why not do it for 5man?


Karazan, zulaman, ulduar...I'm asking for 5 man dungeon to have this kind of epic feeling to it. Blackrock was very similar to this, but because there is a few major flaws, people decided that no, linear instance are always better.

[Krye]

Blizzard should make it the way I want it because my opinion is the only one that matters and whatever anyone else thinks is stupid?