Random Cataclysm discussion

**Siniroth** · 2010-11-07 03:08

I never said I find them so exciting, I like BRD very much, but it's laughable that you complain about immersion and then disagree that NPCs could possibly have an issue with you attacking their leaders

**Kaylia** · 2010-11-07 03:10

Originally Posted by Krye

Blizzard should make it the way I want it because my opinion is the only one that matters and whatever anyone else thinks is stupid?

Every opinions are equals?

**Kaylia** · 2010-11-07 03:27

Originally Posted by Siniroth

I never said I find them so exciting, I like BRD very much, but it's laughable that you complain about immersion and then disagree that NPCs could possibly have an issue with you attacking their leaders

I still don't understand why you think an extreme case make a valid argument. I'm asking for dungeons that are more immersive than your average 5 man dungeon right now, I'm not asking for the most immersive experience you will ever encounter in a rpg. Everything I asked for is already in the game one way or the other...it's mostly a question of art direction that would barely affect the gameplay.

I know more people prefer karazhan, ulduar and Zulaman over VoA, Gruul's lair, or Forge of Soul? Why? The loot table? Probably not. These raid are also good example of what I would like to see in my dungeon. People hate BRD because there is a few bad design decisions (graveyard 10 miles away, no teleports, too many pulls), but I still think it had the same potential as other raids I named above with a few minor fix.

If instead of asking for "dungeon like BRD/spire", I had asked for "dungeon similar to karazhan", do you think people would have disagreed with me as much? Yet, both instance are fairly similar.

**Siniroth** · 2010-11-07 03:37

Originally Posted by Siniroth

NPCs could possibly have an issue with you attacking their leaders

Originally Posted by Kaylia

I still don't understand why you think an extreme case make a valid argument.

I'm not making an extreme case here, and in my original post on the matter the BRD and Thaurissan reference was in brackets. You can make more immersive instances while forcing trash pulls, and while leaving some as completely optional. You just want to skip trash and let it look pretty and only need to deal with the minimum between bosses.

**Kaylia** · 2010-11-07 03:42

Originally Posted by Siniroth

I'm not making an extreme case here, and in my original post on the matter the BRD and Thaurissan reference was in brackets. You can make more immersive instances while forcing trash pulls, and while leaving some as completely optional. You just want to skip trash and let it look pretty and only need to deal with the minimum between bosses.

What? Where did I say that everything should be skipable? I don't know why you're assuming this, because you couldn't be farther away from what I wanted..

I gave BRD as an example because it has a fair deal of skippable trashes, passive enemies, and npcs, but still force you to fight your way through the zone. Like I said, i want variety in the instance. I want to be able to skip some, I want to be forced to fight a few more, I want to make an effort to avoid a pull (I gave Hu'xhoi's monsters as an example since WoW is generally lacking here), I want a gauntlet,..etc.

[edit]
The second thing I liked about Black rock was the "3d" layout. Unlike now, there wasn't many invisible wall to block a potential shortcut. I can understand why some people don't give a damn about this, but I always enjoyed exploring that kind of dungeon.

The last thing I loved about BRD had was the size. People complain it takes more than 30min, but w/e, is there anything wrong with the concept of a 5man raid? In the worst case, don't put it in the random dungeon finder, people will do it anyway if it's fun and give loot.

sb · 2010-11-07 09:47

I'm guessing people complaining about BRD didn't know that it used to be a 10 man raid.

**Siniroth** · 2010-11-07 11:04

Wasn't that Upper Spire?

**Clemz** · 2010-11-07 11:06

BRD and BRS both were 40 man raids, originally with no attunement quests to teleport directly into MC/BWL.

**Norellicus** · 2010-11-07 19:13

Blackrock Spire was meant to be the baby steps area before MC. It was too long/they wanted MC to be the star, so instead they broke it up and made LBRS a 5 man and UBRS a 10 man.

BRD was never a raid that I know of.

**Lee** · 2010-11-07 19:59

BRD was indeed 10 man. Along with Strat/Scholo.

**Correction** · 2010-11-07 20:50

I think you used to be able to take as many people as you wanted before they patched in caps for the blackrock instances and everything else to keep hordes of noobs from trivializing their precious content back in Vanilla. They weren't as much '40 man raids' as much as 'Blizzard didn't think you'd try so they didn't design it for 40 people let alone stop you from taking that many.'

**Tajin** · 2010-11-07 23:38

Originally Posted by Kaylia

Yeah yeah, i get it. You like rolling your face over the keyboard.
I mean, who would want diversity in their instance? It's much more fun to the same mindless trash over and over repeating the same 4 macro.

I find wotlk dungeons different enough between each other the first 4 times you do them all, unique ones include ToC, Oculus, HoS, the others are a mix of TBC content with wotlk stuff. And either way the dungeons are already done so your arguing is pretty pointless and stupid considering the direction Blizz is taking his MMO.
Edit: Long gone are the times of shouting in /4 and traveling to the summoning stone, even more so now that blizzard is merging battlegroups for battlegrounds and RDF. Very technical instances wont work with people looking for instant gratification.

**Kaylia** · 2010-11-08 13:54

New cataclysm quests are out in oggrimar...I'm not sure since when, but I didnt realized it until now.

Originally Posted by Tajin

I find wotlk dungeons different enough between each other the first 4 times you do them all, unique ones include ToC, Oculus, HoS, the others are a mix of TBC content with wotlk stuff. And either way the dungeons are already done so your arguing is pretty pointless and stupid considering the direction Blizz is taking his MMO.
Edit: Long gone are the times of shouting in /4 and traveling to the summoning stone, even more so now that blizzard is merging battlegroups for battlegrounds and RDF. Very technical instances wont work with people looking for instant gratification.

Clearly, I was trying to convince blizzard they should pursue my idea by posting a wish on this forum. >_>

And I'm not sure how the 2nd part is relevant to the topic. Having larger 5 man instance wouldn't go against instant gratification.

**vrumpt** · 2010-11-08 14:35

2 quests have been added. takes 5 minutes to finish. Totally fucking lame.

**Kaylia** · 2010-11-08 14:52

Yeah, quests were a letdown. The bit about northrend tablet could have been interesting, but they didnt give any details.

**Katlan** · 2010-11-08 17:22

edit: my bad, wrong thread. Read " random cataclysm discussion" as "random complaint" lol

**Plow** · 2010-11-09 06:47

This entire argument is predicated on the expectation of farming the same zone over and over in 5 mans.

Stuff like HoS, the prison in BF, all of new Strat, etc. etc., is by far the best way to do dungeons, creative events that challenge you across multiple skillsets, and take some time and planning etc.

But when you're in there for the 40th time, it's fucking retarded.