Random Cataclysm discussion

[fantasticdan]

They only gave us a small tibit of info for the moment, blizzard always releases a teaser then explains on it more down the line and things always change. It's very unlikely for there not to be ilvl differences between 10s and 25s.

Although, if they want to make 10s/25s closer in difficulty to one another, then I suppose getting rid of those ilvl differences will help. Like I said, either way, it makes me miss my last guild that much less. Every time I pug a 25man I miss being in my old top 100 guild, working on HM LK and not having to deal with shitty players in pugs. Getting the same loot from the 10man version with RL friends and my sister is way more fun to me, not having to deal with pugs that won't let my warrior have his best in slot leather bracers, win.

DPS plate isn't going to want to wear agi gear in cata anyway.

[Katlan]

With this new system it will be a lot easier for blizzard to add more loot to each bosses loot tables as well as more trash epics. All pieces will be in all forms of the instance, you no longer have to make 2 different loot tables for each boss, just different item levels. 10s and 25s now are essentially 2 different raids entirely, now with them being one, you can have the same amount of loot as 2 instances in one.

While I like the idea also, I really don't want to see tons of more items in a single boss's loot pool. All that means is that it could essentially be harder to get that piece of gear you want. So yeah, thus u raid more (what blizz wants) to get that item that used to be 1/14, but is now 1/20+ lol

[Lucavi]

I'd rather see 5/15 than 3/15 or 5/20. Since the number of classes aren't increasing, I really can't see them just cramming more fluff items on each boss to jack up the number of goodies.

I will say that I want more items like Nibelung, though. I want more shit that... does shit. Give me a bow that summons some spectral archer to rain death from above or something, even if the damage is negligible.

[Cephius]

I'd rather see 5/15 than 3/15 or 5/20. Since the number of classes aren't increasing, I really can't see them just cramming more fluff items on each boss to jack up the number of goodies.

I will say that I want more items like Nibelung, though. I want more shit that... does shit. Give me a bow that summons some spectral archer to rain death from above or something, even if the damage is negligible.

I want something cool for tanks. In ICC, casters got a staff that summons a valk, melee got a trinket that turns them into various beasts, tanks got.... a mace with an autoenchant that procs every second and spams the annoying animation :E

Give us a legendary shield, a cool weapon that (as you put it) does shit, something that makes tanking cool and fun. Lord knows WoW could stand to have a few more people want to tank again.

[Melena]

Don't forget the guild progression system is going to be affected by the top 25 people or so in the guild, so seeing everyone drop to 10-15 man guilds isn't going to happen. The faster your 25 build up, the more features get unlocked for your guild, and so far that seems by going 25man raid will be the fastest way.

[Lucavi]

I want something cool for tanks. In ICC, casters got a staff that summons a valk, melee got a trinket that turns them into various beasts, tanks got.... a mace with an autoenchant that procs every second and spams the annoying animation :E

Give us a legendary shield, a cool weapon that (as you put it) does shit, something that makes tanking cool and fun. Lord knows WoW could stand to have a few more people want to tank again.

No complaints from me. I remember GC saying that Blizz really enjoyed the feedback for Nib, and that they were going to be making a lot more items that gave abilities similar to it.

I'd like to see something for tanks that literally summons a phalanx in front of them, or maybe mirror images to soak up damage. Perhaps a shield that has a chance to divide the tank into 3 images that each take 33% of all damage for the next 3-5 seconds or something. Give it a similar proc rate to nib.

This is a chance for Blizz to really get creative with their gear.

[Cephius]

Don't forget the guild progression system is going to be affected by the top 25 people or so in the guild, so seeing everyone drop to 10-15 man guilds isn't going to happen. The faster your 25 build up, the more features get unlocked for your guild, and so far that seems by going 25man raid will be the fastest way.

Judging from the posts here, I don't think many of us care about guild progression ranking. Maybe Gulk and a few others, but I don't think many people here (or in the WoW community for that matter) will do 25s just for guild rankings.

[Boyiee]

DPS plate isn't going to want to wear agi gear in cata anyway.

No, Really? It was an example.

Judging from the posts here, I don't think many of us care about guild progression ranking. Maybe Gulk and a few others, but I don't think many people here (or in the WoW community for that matter) will do 25s just for guild rankings.

Yeah there is only a handful of people on here that have been top 100 even, there is at least 2 top 20 I believe. Blizzard will do something to make 25s more attractive though, different ilvl's from 10s yet same gear is the easiest and most obvious to implement, and probably will be what we get. There has already been talk of if there will be legendaries from 10mans too because of the change, and from the response it seems they may stay 25... so the mounts/exclusives may stay 25 only as well. Just gotta wait and see. This first bit of information is never enough or something to really take without a grain of salt.

[Falaras]

Flavor items are cool and all but using Nibelung as an example, the item points put into the proc made it worthless. The Valks die too easily to compare it to any item of the same ilvl (or even lower sometimes). I always wanted one but after hearing a few warlocks in my guild that are stuck using it bitch non stop I stopped wanting it.

[fantasticdan]

No, Really? It was an example.

An example of what? It doesn't look like there will be anyone down cannibalizing gear in cata at all, so there wouldn't have been any of that type of debate in pugs anyway.

Yeah there is only a handful of people on here that have been top 100 even, there is at least 2 top 20 I believe. Blizzard will do something to make 25s more attractive though, different ilvl's from 10s yet same gear is the easiest and most obvious to implement, and probably will be what we get. There has already been talk of if there will be legendaries from 10mans too because of the change, and from the response it seems they may stay 25... so the mounts/exclusives may stay 25 only as well. Just gotta wait and see. This first bit of information is never enough or something to really take without a grain of salt.

That would defeat the entire purpose of this change.

[Boyiee]

It was an example of never having to run a shitty 25 man pug with people that don't know classes or how gear works or if a trinket should go to a healer or to a dps... The items will drop in 10mans as well now which is a lot less frustrating for people.

Right now each raid is essentially 2 different raids, each boss having 2 separate loot pools. Now it is going to all be combined into one. Having the same items drop but different ilvls does not defeat the purpose of the change. They want players to be able to associate bosses with their loot tables and even associate specific artwork with specific item names to a far greater extent than today. This has no bearing on ilvl's really. We'll see what blizzard does in the future until cat cause a lot of blue posts about TBC and Wrath didn't make it all the way, this is the kind of thing thats really easy for them to alter if they feel 25s will become less attractive.

[Norellicus]

From the first post

10 and 25-player (Normal difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop the exact same items as each other.
10 and 25-player (Heroic difficulty) -- Very similar to one another in difficulty; drop more powerful versions of the normal-difficulty items.

[Siniroth]

Give me a bow that summons some spectral archer to rain death from above or something, even if the damage is negligible.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2008/20080912.jpg

[Boyiee]

From the first post

Yes, we've all read that. The discussion was that it's an easy change if they are going to make one to keep people more interested, and that it doesn't defeat the purpose of having the same loot from 10s/25s. I don't think it's something that will go live but if it does than it's not that big a problem. People complained when they made bosses drop more than 1 tier token, then a week later praised blizzard for doing so.

[Norellicus]

Yes, we've all read that. The discussion was that it's an easy change if they are going to make one to keep people more interested, and that it doesn't defeat the purpose of having the same loot from 10s/25s. I don't think it's something that will go live but if it does than it's not that big a problem. People complained when they made bosses drop more than 1 tier token, then a week later praised blizzard for doing so.

Don't misunderstand me, I love the proposal, I'm just pointing out that you're arguing that they're going to diversify item levels again between 10/25 when their own text says otherwise.

[Boyiee]

Don't misunderstand me either, I also love the proposal, I was just pointing out that if people are going to bitch and there is a fear of less incentive to do 25s then it's a pretty simple change to make. I'm not arguing that they are definitely going to change ilvl's.

Wouldn't be the first time their own text said otherwise either.

[Boyiee]

Rereading the notes again I think I'm more inclined to do 25 mans now than before. Having the option to run a 10man if certain people aren't on is a plus, and still get the same loot just less of it. Kind of worried that people will clear content too fast getting more loot and be waiting for the next content release sooner though.

[Gulkeeva]

Thats the problem... people will less likely want to do 25man...


I mean like any guild atm... (and probably have for awhile) had trouble always have ing 25 online on time (or even 25). Not so hard to just get 10... especially 10 good people that don't tend to "fuckup".

If its raids like icc... and your doing heroics 1 "fuckup" in 25man can really wipe the raid, but in 10man less likely to happen and you'd get "your loot" probably faster because theirs alot less people after what you want (like .. instead of 8 dps'ers after what you want, you got 1-2). Less people to afk, less people to messup... less trash, less time, why 25man?

[Norellicus]

More loot per hour of time?

The whole point is that if some of your 25 man crew isn't on that night/week, you can run 10s instead and not appreciably lose progress.

[Ohaigaiz]

What?

Idk if you are saying LK25 HEROIC is hard or easy?

The hardest part about the fight at the moment is Infest healing, when healing is increased by 30% and shields increased by 30% and health is increased by 30%, this part of the fight will be trivial, so yes, shit guilds that should never be able to down the boss will be able too.

you're an idiot.

the reason that lich king and 90% of all the hard modes in icc are difficult is because of the raid awareness required, not because of the absence of some fucking buff that increases healing, DPS, and health. the buff will remove some cause of fuck ups, but raid wipe mechanics will still remain and the need for everyone to be on their a game will still remain.