Random Cataclysm discussion

[Kaylia]

Your own quote doesn't support the idea that Sargeras was corrupted by a demon, and most places aren't specific about what drove him mad, so I can't say for sure either that he was corrupted by an old god. But that's generally their MO, so it wouldn't surprise me; it's already clear he was being manipulated by them to some extent, as the Demon Soul was empowered by them, purportedly to set Sargeras free, but ultimately unbeknownst to him the use of the artifact would set them free in the process due to the immense power contained within it.

Where did you read that the Demon Soul was empowered by the Old God to free Sargeras? It's the aspect dragon who made it, and it was used by Deathwing to fight the Burning Legion. The old gods don't care who does it, they just want to create chaos on Azeroth to break free. Sargeras, the elemental lord, the aspect...they are all fine candidate.


About Sargeras, I agree that Old Gods could be behind the corruption, but there is no mention of them anywhere before Azeroth. And since demon do corrupt being around them, I don't see why not.

[LD]

What ever happened to crazy?

[Norellicus]

Where did you read that the Demon Soul was empowered by the Old God to free Sargeras? It's the aspect dragon who made it, and it was used by Deathwing to fight the Burning Legion. The old gods don't care who does it, they just want to create chaos on Azeroth to break free. Sargeras, the elemental lord, the aspect...they are all fine candidate.

Someone needs to read their Neltharion/Deathwing lore. Also, the old gods.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Neltharion
http://www.wowpedia.org/Old_Gods

The Demon Soul was created at the suggestion of the Old Gods to Neltharion; he tricked the rest of the Aspects into imbuing it with their power in an effort to stop the Legion, not knowing that Neltharion himself had not imbued it and instead planned to draw the power for his own purposes. Later, it was communicated again by the Old Gods (either to Sargeras or his minions, this is unclear) that the Demon Soul could be used to set Sargeras free; what they weren't told is that it would open a portal powerful enough to break the gods themselves out as well.

[Plow]

http://www.wowpedia.org/Stormrage

[Bilopdop]

I am not sure if I like these Wowpedia links or not. I usually start reading about someone only to click the link of someone elses name, start reading about them, then do the exact same thing until I finally reach a character that is not well known and work my way back to the first page.

At least it keeps me busy...

[Meresgi]

Unless I'm missing something, I think you got it backward. Sargaras (as a titan) was corrupted by demon he fought and ended up turning into one. The Old God were pulling the string to bring Sargaras to Azeroth because the destruction would would free them from their prison.

From what I remember, Sargaras went insane and formed the burning legion from witnessing the destruction he saw across the cosmos (from demons?) I cant remember. I think the demons were scattered and Sargaras basically brought them all together in the form of the Legion. I agree with you that I dont think the old gods were the ones who corrupted Sargaras, he just went fuck insane on his own.

[Plow]

Sargeras basically saw that there was going to be chaos and destruction fighting order and goodness no matter what and decided the only chance at perfection was "perfect chaos."


About the links... yeah, that's what wikis do. I do that shit on wowwiki and even normal wiki all the time lol.

[Norellicus]

It doesn't explicitly say that Sargeras' madness was caused by the Old Gods, but given the fact that a) they were imprisoned by the Titans and likely wouldn't mind a little poetic revenge, and b) are clearly involved in orchestrating a lot of other things involving Sargeras that also conveniently work toward setting themselves free, it's a good bet that they were a contributing factor. Sargeras was all emo-cutwrist-mode from seeing the imperfect nature of that which he tried so hard to defend, and then somehow went bonkers. For a supreme being like that, I have a hard time buying that there wasn't some kind of external influence there.

[aurik]

Wow some pretty major changes to rdruid coming down the pipe:

Rejuv mana cost dropped from ~4.4k to ~2.7k
When 3 or more rejuvs are active, Nourish cast time reduced by 30% (1.75s base instead of 2.5?)
Regrowth added to empowered touch: resets duration on LB and healing increased by 10%
Omen of Clarity procs reduced.

With less OoC, there will be less regrowth, but we will probably maintain 3 rejuvs (cost of ~810 mana per second) so that we can machinegun out efficient nourishes. RG resetting LB on tank also improves our sink for excess OoC procs.

[Arvin]

I'm glad they're fixing druids a little. R Druids were nowhere as good as all the other healing classes, they need a big buff.

[Plow]

Resilience reduces necro strike now, but necro strike applies desecration and ibf breaks stuns.

I like.

Also, looks like blood might actually be getting fairly strong in pvp. The nerf to ds heal doesn't really hurt that much as blood since your incoming tends to be so low anyway, and the boosts to heart strike and rune strike will actually put blood pretty damn close to right on par with unholy and frost dmg output in necro strike spam situations. Not to mention bladed armor/vengeance/abom might buffing your ns even further.

[Tomino]

I always saw Sargeras corruption as something caused by the highest kind of darkness:
He was picked to fight chaos and evil full-time, and being so close to such bad, bad things eventually corrupted it at a very deep level. Same old story about the abyss staring back at you, basically.
To me he's far too important and powerful to be victim of someone else's plot.

[Kaylia]

^
That's how I understood the whole thing, but the line between Old God and "corruption" is most likely thin. If they arent the same, there is most likely a common denominator somewhere close.

It's my interpretation, but on one side, you have the Great Dark, an ordered place controlled by the Titan where balance is everything. On the opposite side, there is the Twisted nether, home of demons, and chaotic magical force. While the lore hasnt told us much, I believe it's safe to assume that old God are to "chaos" what Titan are to "order".

Sargaras's corruption probably originate from this struggle between chaos and order before anything.

[Kurp]

Is Engineering completely worthless for a melee character or is there something that I'm missing?

I still don't have the INT tinker for my mage and I don't want to level this bullshit profession on my rogue if that shitty 5k damage per minute tinker is the melee profession 'bonus.'

edit: Never mind, it's 5k per TWO minutes. lol

[Eaglestrike]

Is Engineering completely worthless for a melee character or is there something that I'm missing?

I still don't have the INT tinker for my mage and I don't want to level this bullshit profession on my rogue if that shitty 5k damage per minute tinker is the melee profession 'bonus.'

edit: Never mind, it's 5k per TWO minutes. lol

Doesn't engineering have cogwheels or something?

[fantasticdan]

Cogwheels only go in engineering helms, and basically just let you pick the secondary stats on them, there's no bonus stats like with other professions.

The wotlk haste tinker (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=54999) should be better than the shocker one, but I doubt it will be as good as plain agi boosts from other professions.

[Kurp]

The 240 haste tinker from Wrath just doesn't compare to the other bonuses. I loved the rocket boots, but the chance to fail in raids makes them too damn risky now.

[Falaras]

Melee get screwed with Engineering pretty hard, no real reason to have it. The helm is still really good at least to a point where you won't replace it till next tier, but it isn't worth a waste of a profession slot. There are some nice things like Bolt Gun is absolutely insane for AoE but that doesn't make it worth it.

I'm considering dropping Engi or Alchemy for Tailoring right now on my Mage given that Tailoring is pretty imbalanced at the moment. Engineering is stronger than Alchemy (96 INT average on gloves + Goggles > 80 INT from flask) but also will get weaker next tier and having double the length of flasks when flasks cost 300g is pretty awesome. It is kind of odd how blizzard went from WoTLK where most the non gathering professions where balanced and now profession balance is all over the fucking place.

[Arcana]

With any luck Blizzard will implement something into engineering to keep the Helms/Cogs in line with current tier usefulness, we're still waiting on epic teir gems and such.

[Meph]

Melee get screwed with Engineering pretty hard, no real reason to have it

I disagree. the expertise-cog alone lets you off the hook to reforge other stats. Im not gonna answer for all melee, I just know I wouldve liked it for my shaman, but Im too lazy to drop JC for it