Random Cataclysm discussion

[Cephius]

* Eternal Shadowspirit Diamond now increases Shield Block Value by 1%, down from 5%.


FUCK

AFAIK it's always been this way, the tooltip was just wrong.

[Eaglestrike]

AFAIK it's always been this way, the tooltip was just wrong.

This. I still have it equipped because it's too expensive to matter in a blue helm, but it only made me go from 40% blocked to 41%.

[Aksannyi]

If you're going to heroic dungeon please be decent enough to have at least ran the normal version first. DM and SFK aside if it's your first time and you havent even run the normal version, you gonna get the boot.

This helps but if it's my first time doing the heroic version I'm still going to ask if anything is different between the two - like the fact that Corborus's burrow deal oneshots you in heroic mode. Not that I'd just hang out in the dust and wait for him to pummel me, but knowing that it's a oneshot mechanic before starting makes me be that much more aware of where I'm standing.

And I have been vtk'ed because I'd done normal but not heroic and I asked if anything was different between the two. Fucking tools, how is anyone supposed to learn.

[aurik]

The main problem with random groups is that everyone has their own priorities. The people you got matched with are there for VP / JP and perhaps some rep and a piece of loot. They didn't sign up to teach other players how to do the heroic. And honestly I can sympathize with them: it can be pretty frustrating to clear half an instance just to find out that one or more of the group members are incapable of handling a gimmick and having the run fall apart as a result.

I often feel the same way when people want to take out every optional boss in HoO. Without optional bosses the place takes like 30 minutes. With the optional bosses, its more like 60+. I signed up for a random to get my daily VP, not to clear bosses for possible shards and some more JP that I have nothing to buy with.

Ultimately the best way to go about things is to form a group / partial group outside of the dungeon finder. (As dps, it's probably just as fast as well.)

[Aksannyi]

See and generally I'm the type to give someone the benefit of the doubt. If they don't know it, we do it once, if they fuck it up, we will regroup and try again, if they fuck up the same thing again, either he goes or I go. Sometimes you have to see it to understand how it goes - this is how it is for me, actually. So even if you explain it, as long as the gimmick is not a oneshot mechanic, I'll miss it the first time (in all probability) but provided I live through it, I'll recover and I won't do the same thing again.

I basically give people the same consideration I would want. If I keep fucking something up after being told I expect to be bitched at or kicked. But being kicked two seconds after porting in because I said, "Hey, this is my first time doing this one on Heroic, anything I should know?" and then being forced to sit in a queue for another 45 minutes ... nothing chaps my ass more.

And this is partially the reason I've been doing PvP more than anything else, even the baddest of the bads can still get me some honor points and there's no kick function to fuck me over simply because I'm new at something.

[Norellicus]

I often feel the same way when people want to take out every optional boss in HoO. Without optional bosses the place takes like 30 minutes. With the optional bosses, its more like 60+. I signed up for a random to get my daily VP, not to clear bosses for possible shards and some more JP that I have nothing to buy with.

So you say "I'd really just like to get through the required bosses; I'm only here to get daily VP."

Not vote kick someone for asking a question.

[aurik]

Well if 3+ of us wanted to kill the end boss and leave, and the other 1-2 people refused to kill Rajh because they want to kill those other bosses first, I would absolutely vote kick them.

Similarly, if I didn't want to educate random people on how to clear heroics, I would not. Personally I usually give them enough rope to hang themselves with first, but if other people immediately vote kick to head off potential problems later, I'd probably go along with it.

Being randomly placed with someone who has conflicting goals does in no way require you to humor them or their goals. It sucks for sure, but you always have the alternative of making your own partial group outside of the random group system if you're having trouble with random groups.

[Correction]

Hang on, you're in a guild that regularly raids and you have to random for your daily VP?

Something's not adding up. Random PUGs routinely have to compromise speed for just getting it done. Extend your lock for Heroic Halls of Oculus if you don't like doing 7 bosses.

[aurik]

Yes I periodically random for daily VP. Maybe once or twice a week now.

[Norellicus]

Well if 3+ of us wanted to kill the end boss and leave, and the other 1-2 people refused to kill Rajh because they want to kill those other bosses first, I would absolutely vote kick them.

Similarly, if I didn't want to educate random people on how to clear heroics, I would not. Personally I usually give them enough rope to hang themselves with first, but if other people immediately vote kick to head off potential problems later, I'd probably go along with it.

Wow, good job perpetuating the problem. You don't even know how capable they are without information, just because they asked to be informed doesn't automatically make them dead weight. In fact I'd say the people who ask are already a step ahead of most...

[Aksannyi]

Seriously, most of the fights are not the type where you can just wing it and hope to live. Like the final boss in Vortex Pinnacle ... if you don't know what to do, you're fucked. You will get oneshot the first time it happens and be down for the rest of the fight.

[Cephius]

Seriously, most of the fights are not the type where you can just wing it and hope to live. Like the final boss in Vortex Pinnacle ... if you don't know what to do, you're fucked. You will get oneshot the first time it happens and be down for the rest of the fight.

Do you mean the second boss? Or the third? Because there's no oneshot mechanic on the first boss, the worst that can happen is you get the casting/swing timer debuff

[Aksannyi]

Final boss, not first.

The lightning bolt thing that hits you if you're not within the grounding field.

[aurik]

Wow, good job perpetuating the problem. You don't even know how capable they are without information, just because they asked to be informed doesn't automatically make them dead weight. In fact I'd say the people who ask are already a step ahead of most...

It's not a problem, it's the fact of how the system works. When you enter a democratic system with no checks & balance, you can get fucked with no recourse by the majority for any reason or no reason at all.

I sign up to get my VP on days where my guild mates are too busy / too lazy to run one. The bottom line for me is that I am there JUST for VP, I couldn't care less for the rest of it. Some days I'm in a good enough mood to hold peoples hands through new or optional content, some days I'm not. On other days I am not, and I will absolutely vote for any proposition that I think will make the run smoother or faster. I didn't sign any contract that says I'm obligated to do otherwise, so deal with it. If you're looking to place blame, blame blizzard for a full tier of raiding not giving a capped amount of VP, which drives some of us to queue when we really have no other interest in being there besides killing the final boss as soon as possible.

Don't like it? Don't sign up. You can still do random heroics with a pre-made partial or full group.

[Norellicus]

Because it's not the shooter's fault that someone dies, it's the gun's fault for being lethal.

[aurik]

Is that all you got?

[Plow]

Hang on, you're in a guild that regularly raids and you have to random for your daily VP?

Something's not adding up. Random PUGs routinely have to compromise speed for just getting it done. Extend your lock for Heroic Halls of Oculus if you don't like doing 7 bosses.

I mentioned this earlier but I'm going to repeat it: due to all the shit you guys say I've been trying random heroics as dps solo queued.

It's just not that bad. You don't have to be particularly good to carry some really weak shit.

As healer or tank that's even more true. But with the looseness of the tuning it's very much so for a decent dps as well.

[Kaylia]

If you're going to heroic dungeon please be decent enough to have at least ran the normal version first. DM and SFK aside if it's your first time and you havent even run the normal version, you gonna get the boot.

It doesnt matter imo. No one is going to learn the mechanics on normal as they are far too forgiving. It's not a terrible idea to do them once of course, I just don't think it would makes a huge difference. Bad players are going to dies anyway, and good players will do just fine.

[edit]
I guess Tank should run the normal version once though. It's important to know the pulls and layout.

[aurik]

Normal versions are missing really key mechanics on a lot of fights. Just looking at Stonecore:

The trash is much less lethal (ie, you can survive 2 of those spinning adds at the beginning without too much trouble, whereas all but the best of groups will need to pay special attention to CC and interrupts on those pulls in heroic)
Corborus doesn't have adds on normal; the shards are just damage
Slabhide doesn't channel that spell that needs to be LoS'd
Ozruk doesn't use Paralysis

That's pretty much all the major gimmicks on heroic that you'd be missing out if you practice on normal.

[Cephius]

I mentioned this earlier but I'm going to repeat it: due to all the shit you guys say I've been trying random heroics as dps solo queued.

It's just not that bad. You don't have to be particularly good to carry some really weak shit.

As healer or tank that's even more true. But with the looseness of the tuning it's very much so for a decent dps as well.

Because no one is going to come here and say "Just did random heroic, it was pretty normal and we cleared it in 45 minutes with a few wipes" so of course by reading here you're only going to get the worst experiences. When I queue as tank maybe 1 in 6-8 groups are terribad to the point I have to drop, it really isn't that bad but obviously it's worse coming from WoTLK where maybe 1 in 100 groups actually failed.