New Job/Unemployment Compensation

[Plow]

Being defensive about "unemployment isn't welfare" is accepting the antagonists' definition of welfare (which is also the common definition) - so in that, you're correct Plow. People who receive unemployment don't feel like it is unearned or a drain on society...because it isn't.

The problem is not your understanding of how unemployment works, it's your utter and complete lack of understanding of how CMS, TANF, WIC, SNAP, and the other systems operate...


And the fact that it leads to your direct implication that there are 2 different classes of welfare, and one is unearned and a drain on society, while the other is for hard working people that contribute (read: white people).


Get over it, you can still say "I spend half my time on unemployment" instead of "I spend half my time on welfare" so you don't feel as bad about it, the unfortunate side is that you shouldn't have to feel worse for one than the other, because they're the same concept.

[Gadritan]

And the fact that it leads to your direct implication that there are 2 different classes of welfare, and one is unearned and a drain on society, while the other is for hard working people that contribute (read: white people).

If I put my balls on your chin, would you care of they were black or white?

This is literally a direct effect of people like Rush Limbaugh manipulating the mindset of Americans to turn the term welfare into a dirty word.

No. This is literally a direct effect of people abusing the system.

I didn't know you were so racist Plow.

[Melena]

only in BG Land can we argue the semantics of what people conceive welfare (free money for being fat lazy single parents who don't want to work) and unemployment which you and your employer have to contribute to, to even use if and when you need it.

[Penthesilea]

Well, I got the offer and I won't have to take my screening for another few weeks, so I'll be good.

Guess I will be filing after all.

[archibaldcrane]

Well, I got the offer and I won't have to take my screening for another few weeks, so I'll be good.

Guess I will be filing after all.

Enjoy your lazy welfare!

[Plow]

No. This is literally a direct effect of people abusing the system.

Direct effects of abusing the system include higher costs, longer "lines", tougher organization and management, etc.

The only way actual abuses have an effect on this is through people like Rush, Newt, and the rest of the early 90's repub crew taking the relatively low level of abuse and portraying it as massively overrun and basically being all that welfare is.


Which results in stupid fucking people actually believing it, and being insulted when you point out that unemployment is welfare, because as far as they're concerned welfare is for stupid nigger bitches that don't want to work so they pop out kids until they don't have to.

Good thing there's nobody like that around here though, seeing how this is such a liberal group that understands that welfare is a critical part of a successful modern society and doesn't mean that, at all.

[Edgie]

I know plenty of white people who abuse the welfare system. I hate the fact that the system is so easily manipulated.

[Gadritan]

Direct effects of abusing the system...

I was actually talking about the way people view welfare. It's not because of some over the top radio host, it's because people have abused the shit out of it. Same as unemployment.

It's not some notion I picked up from the media in the 90s either. Rumor has it, it's 2010. I know that the overwhelming majority of the people I know on welfare absolutely don't need it. They joke about that shit all the time.

You say everyone assumes that anyone on welfare or a similar system is a lazy worthless piece of shit. The problem, is that you're assuming that everyone who's receiving these benefits actually needs them. It's somewhere in the middle.

You also keep assuming that this is all about race. It's not. You keep implying that white people feel the way they do about this shit because they're all automatically racist. Whites aren't the only ones who complain about this. You're perpetuating the cycle you racist fuck.

[jmc]

I know plenty of white people who abuse the welfare system. I hate the fact that the system is so easily manipulated.

^ THIS!


I didn't see one instance where anyone pointed race towards welfare or unemployment.


Abusing welfare happens all over this country, with no race in mind. Same abuse happens in unemployment, with people who collect and work a job under the table for double dipping. Same thing happens with state/government retirements as well.

[Gadritan]

Same abuse happens in unemployment, with people who collect and work a job under the table for double dipping. Same thing happens with state/government retirements as well.

That's exactly what most of the people I know do. They get their welfare and unemployment checks, but they're working normal 40hr/week+ construction jobs and shit under the table.

Pretty annoying when you're one of the legit people who's scraping by while shitstick over there buys $150 worth of steaks for poker night with his foodstamps.

[Plow]

I was actually talking about the way people view welfare. It's not because of some over the top radio host, it's because people have abused the shit out of it. Same as unemployment.

It's not some notion I picked up from the media in the 90s either. Rumor has it, it's 2010. I know that the overwhelming majority of the people I know on welfare absolutely don't need it. They joke about that shit all the time.

Perhaps you didn't pick it up directly from the people that established it in the 90's. The fact is, however, it wasn't so widely viewed that way until those people shoved the idea down everyone's throats, and made welfare a bad word.

How do you think the middle class would have reacted to proposed welfare cuts during the great depression?

How do you think the middle class would react to proposed welfare cuts now, during the biggest recession since?

Even 30 years ago, if a major recession occurred and you started talking about cutting social welfare programs, you'd be looked at like you were retarded by all but the farthest outlying conservatives, and this during the height of anti-communist mentality.

You say everyone assumes that anyone on welfare or a similar system is a lazy worthless piece of shit. The problem, is that you're assuming that everyone who's receiving these benefits actually needs them. It's somewhere in the middle.

First off, "most of the people I know" as a person who's not living in poverty is not remotely representative of the vast majority of the tens of millions of people on welfare.

I know a woman that claims Fibromyalgia makes it impossible for her to work regularly and has lived off welfare and child support (with no kids actually being dependent) for 20 years. I also know her daughter who stayed off welfare except when she got pregnant just out of high school and had to go on it, and still had to work fast food into her third trimester to keep her shitty ass 2 bedroom apartment with a literal crackhead roommate and neighbors.

Any system of "free money" is going to be abused. Unemployment is abused just as much if not more than welfare, due to the fact that it literally requires you not to work while systems like TANF require you to work if you can.

The fact that these systems are sometimes abused does not make one worse than the other (let alone worthy of cuts), if there are abuse issues you *FIX THEM*, you don't fuck over the people that really need the systems even worse.

You also keep assuming that this is all about race. It's not. You keep implying that white people feel the way they do about this shit because they're all automatically racist. Whites aren't the only ones who complain about this. You're perpetuating the cycle you racist fuck.

The point is this:

You've got a bunch of middle class people sitting around doing the absolute textbook stereotype of "Well we've got to cut something, let's cut social welfare. LOL Fuck off, not my social welfare programs, cut social welfare programs for people below me. You know, Welfare. For those people."

It just so happens that those people are by a vast majority... minority races. I'm just using that point for effect, because all of these people would say it in a heartbeat were they talking about republicans refusing to tax higher brackets than them while wanting to cut their benefits.

[Plow]

Here, let me put it simply:

I know *EXACTLY* what you're talking about when you say "Welfare, not welfare." I understand the exact distinction you're trying to make.


The problem is, it's a completely false distinction which was established in the 90's by some of the worst influences on American politics ever, and shoved down everyone's throats so extensively that even the people that should absolutely know better and refuse to cooperate in the propagation consider it just "natural law" at this point.

[Gadritan]

First off, "most of the people I know" as a person who's not living in poverty is not remotely representative of the vast majority of the tens of millions of people on welfare.

"...majority of the people I know on welfare"

You left out two key words. That's also exactly the point. They're not living in poverty and don't need it, yet continue to reap the benefits of it.

I know a woman that claims Fibromyalgia makes it impossible for her to work regularly and has lived off welfare and child support (with no kids actually being dependent) for 20 years. I also know her daughter who stayed off welfare except when she got pregnant just out of high school and had to go on it, and still had to work fast food into her third trimester to keep her shitty ass 2 bedroom apartment with a literal crackhead roommate and neighbors.

2 people are not even remotely representative of the tens of millions of people on welfare. Also, when people continue to make shitty decisions (we all make mistakes, but you gotta' learn from em') that put them into horrible circumstances, it's hard for me to give a fuck what happens to them. Darwin them bitches out.

Any system of "free money" is going to be abused.

Love this one. That's the problem. People don't understand that nothing is free. That stems from our education (or lack thereof), but I'll just leave that alone.

You've got a bunch of middle class people sitting around doing the absolute textbook stereotype of "Well we've got to cut something, let's cut social welfare. LOL Fuck off, not my social welfare programs, cut social welfare programs for people below me. You know, Welfare. For those people."

You do realize that you're just basing that on stereotypes right? You know, the same thing you were bitching about earlier. About how people stereotype those that are on welfare. What do you mean by social welfare here anyway? It doesn't make sense in the context it was used.

It just so happens that those people are by a vast majority... minority races. I'm just using that point for effect, because all of these people would say it in a heartbeat were they talking about republicans refusing to tax higher brackets than them while wanting to cut their benefits.

One of the most common misconceptions about welfare programs. Over half of the people on welfare are white. You obviously have access to the net, so I'd suggest looking up some facts before you go spewing the race card again.

I know *EXACTLY* what you're talking about when you say "Welfare, not welfare." I understand the exact distinction you're trying to make.

Good, because I have no fucking clue what you're talking about.