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[BRP]

It's obvious from the fact that you hate all of the other FFs that we (and a lot of other people who play) simply look for other things in games and are capable of enjoying games whose gameplay is not A++; why can you not accept that instead of being a smartass?

I can accept people demand mediocre games and justify their demand with poor reasons when confronted. It is just that hearing all of the those reasons isn't good for mental health. Thankfully I don't really need to because I can debunk you with a simple sarcastic statement like "Because spamming A over and over again gives rise to more immersion." Experience and immersion, you are handling these words poorly and I shouldn't bother trying to explain them to you because "you play games for other reasons" like being immersed with experience of "mindless strategy".

EDIT: Also saying FFXIII is "deeper" than Call of Duty X or Halo Y(or whatever other FPS you'd like to imply outside Doom or something) is preposterous. FFXIII is lucky to be deeper than Pokemon.

[Tyrath]

Because spamming A over and over again gives rise to more immersion.

There is an option to not use the Auto battle feature and just enter the commands yourself. It's just as effective. And it's no different from most RPGs. You select the command, the character does it.

[BRP]

There is an option to not use the Auto battle feature and just enter the commands yourself. It's just as effective.

I don't understand why it would matter then.

[Tyrath]

I don't understand why it would matter then.

It's called options. Different people play differently.

[Raen Ryong]

I can accept people demand mediocre games and justify their demand with poor reasons when confronted. It is just that hearing all of the those reasons isn't good for mental health. Thankfully I don't really need to because I can debunk you with a simple sarcastic statement like "Because spamming A over and over again gives rise to more immersion." Experience and immersion, you are handling these words poorly and I shouldn't bother trying to explain them to you because "you play games for other reasons" like being immersed with experience of "mindless strategy".

You're just unable to accept opinions other than your own. A game cannot be immersive if you have to deal with menus? I think you're just trying too hard to be different.

EDIT: Also saying FFXIII is "deeper" than Call of Duty X or Halo Y(or whatever other FPS you'd like to imply outside Doom or something) is preposterous. FFXIII is lucky to be deeper than Pokemon.

It's deeper in so much that it involves more than just absorbing gameplay itself; you have storyline, atmosphere, music - all blending together to create a gameworld which can be immersive. FPSs are generally a case of "pick up a gun and shoot people".

[Tyrath]

Why are we arguing FPS vs RPGs anyways? They're completely different genres, and each have their fans. So pointless to argue which is better or deeper or what have you.

[ArchDizzle]

"Because spamming A over and over again gives rise to more immersion."

BRP you're doing it wrong.

[Xno Kappa]

Oh snap, stop the presses! BRP is complaining about a game not meeting his own little arbitrary standards while seemingly contradicting himself against the personal opinion of others! This comes as a great shock to many of us.

Then you wonder why people call you a troll.

[Raen Ryong]

Why are we arguing FPS vs RPGs anyways? They're completely different genres, and each have their fans. So pointless to argue which is better or deeper or what have you.

Don't get me wrong, I find FPS very fun. I just think they provide a completely different kind of entertainment to an RPG for instance (storyline is MUCH more important to a RPG etc). I didn't intend for this to be a "lol play RPG or you're shallow" kind of argument~ sorry if it looks like an attack on FPS.

[Tyrath]

Don't get me wrong, I find FPS very fun. I just think they provide a completely different kind of entertainment to an RPG for instance (storyline is MUCH more important to a RPG etc). I didn't intend for this to be a "lol play RPG or you're shallow" kind of argument~ sorry if it looks like an attack on FPS.

Eh, wasn't specifically directed at you. I agree completely, they're completely different kinds of entertainment. Which is why I was just pointing out the absurdity of comparing RPGs and FPS games.

[BRP]

It's called options. Different people play differently.

The point being that the number of options can be superficial and individual options can be pointless. This is true when they end in the same(or an unjustifiable suboptimal) result. More importantly the fact manual doesn't give you much of an edge over AUTOMATIC most of the time means selecting your actions is a superficial choice(basically, a chore which is best skipped).

Why are we arguing FPS vs RPGs anyways? They're completely different genres, and each have their fans. So pointless to argue which is better or deeper or what have you.

You are right in saying FPS vs JRPG isn't much of a comparison(I did mention Pokemon though!). However what I am trying to get across is that JRPGs are very shallow for the most part. Final Fantasy games in particular seem to be some of the most shallow and stagnant of that breed and this one is no exception. The problem is that Raen doesn't know what depth means in context to games. (Or motion picture it seems. While I am no expert I doubt a movie version of FFXIII would be a good watch. Let me just outsource Archibaldcrane's opinion on that one. I am ACCEPTING his PERSONAL OPINION!) The fact a Final Fantasy game could be called shallow and a plot-less game could be called deep probably perplexes him.

You're just unable to accept opinions other than your own.

Why would I accept an opinion which is flat out wrong? I will happily absorb insights which are valuable. Next you'll tell me you are entitled to your opinion, so let us skip that part altogether shall we?

A game cannot be immersive if you have to deal with menus?

Where do you get this stuff? I've never said anything close to that. You can be as immersed in games with menus than those without. What the deal breaker is that are you doing anything interesting with(or without) those menus? Even you seem to understand Final Fantasy XIII isn't anything great even when "its get good"(20 hours or so in!). You admit to playing for the storyline or whatever combination of aesthetics.

create a gameworld which can be immersive.

"Gameworlds" are not an activity. You can not be immersed with it. Looking at "gameworlds"(listening to music, watching cinematics, etc on Youtube if you wanna break it down) could be fun but an annoying battle system(or having to do battles at all!) would just get in the way and shatter the illusion and ruin the pace. Now fighting through a gameworld is what you actually do in Final Fantasy(and god knows how many other games). I am sure you can somehow deny this fact because your "perspective" and "opinion" and blah blah "everyone's different!" but good luck trying to do that without an incomprehensible use of buzzwords and vague concepts.

Interesting how people use "gameworlds" to justify subpar games. You guys should check out a little game called Dungeon and Dragons. If you find the battle system subpar you can just minimalize it and focus on the game's world.

FPSs are generally a case of "pick up a gun and shoot people".

Yeah, where are the DEEP anime cliches at? Again, you simply do not understand the meaning of depth when it comes to videogames(it only makes sense you would use "depth" incorrectly, as you did with "experience" and "immersion" and you will do with "art" "emotion" "feeling" and whatever nonsense/buzzwords comes to your mind if we keep this up for on and on - I don't plan on going that far though).

Picking up your gun and shooting people is a lot deeper than you seem to care to imagine. Simply look at the sheer distance someone can travel in skill above the rest in these "pick up gun and shoot people" simulations. The difference in skill isn't some unexplainable phenomenon. Now how many people couldn't manage to solve the entirety of FFXIII with a relaxed, casual state of mind? Perhaps 10 year old girls. Let us not even talk about the first half of the game! No matter how good the game gets you are talking about a day of pure boring bullshit.

BRP is complaining about a game not meeting his own little arbitrary standards while seemingly contradicting himself against the personal opinion of others!

Arbitrary standards? I think your use of arbitrary is arbitrary. And you expect me to attack people's "non-personal opinions" or something? Now there is a contradiction.

[Celeras]

Damn, BRP's here. Threads over.

[Mayareira]

I've got to agree with BRP here, XIII was a very shallow game

Heck, there were chapters that you did nothing but spamming "auto-attack" for HOURS, no story progession, no interesting enemies...nothing. Just side-scroll through a brown zone and spam "auto-attack". Sorry, there is no "different" way to play that part of the game. Its just plain boring&dull. Same enemies...hundreds of them...over and over in a bad looking dungeon with same BGM in loop.

The best thing cthat ame out of XIII was "Saber's Edge". It has got to be the best battle music, ever.

And please, stop glorifying the story. It was OK, nothing more. Definitely not good enough to justify the shortcomings of the game.

If the game was all about a bigger Gran Pulse without a story I'd probably like it more.

[ArchDizzle]

I like bunny cocks.

Lover of a shallow game calling other games shallow.

Here comes the same old XII vs. XIII hurricane!!!

[Kyo]

Lover of a shallow game calling other games shallow.

Stop reading my mind.

[ArchDizzle]

Stop reading my mind.

Kismet, soul mates, no homo, etc.

[Raen Ryong]

The problem is that Raen doesn't know what depth means in context to games. (Or motion picture it seems. While I am no expert I doubt a movie version of FFXIII would be a good watch. Let me just outsource Archibaldcrane's opinion on that one. I am ACCEPTING his PERSONAL OPINION!) The fact a Final Fantasy game could be called shallow and a plot-less game could be called deep probably perplexes him.

The problem is that you cannot understand depth in relation to anything but game mechanics.

Why would I accept an opinion which is flat out wrong?

lol

Even you seem to understand Final Fantasy XIII isn't anything great even when "its get good"(20 hours or so in!).

I loved it when it got good (which was about 7-8 hours for me) and before then I would agree wholeheartedly that it was pretty meh. They dragged out the beginning a lot - too much.

"Gameworlds" are not an activity. You can not be immersed with it.

You can be immersed in an atmosphere. Lore adds little to activity and plenty to atmosphere, and which is easier to get immersed in: a game with a lot of background lore, or one without?

Again, you simply do not understand the meaning of depth when it comes to videogames(it only makes sense you would use "depth" incorrectly, as you did with "experience" and "immersion" and you will do with "art" "emotion" "feeling" and whatever nonsense/buzzwords comes to your mind if we keep this up for on and on - I don't plan on going that far though).

Please check a dictionary if you do not like my uses of the terms; I guarantee I am more intelligent than you.

Picking up your gun and shooting people is a lot deeper than you seem to care to imagine. Simply look at the sheer distance someone can travel in skill above the rest in these "pick up gun and shoot people" simulations. The difference in skill isn't some unexplainable phenomenon.

You are talking about depth in game mechanics and I am talking about depth in atmosphere etc. There are many forms of depth ... in terms of an experience, FPSs are shallow. In terms of gameplay, they are not. As long as a game has depth in one area and not lacking in another area, I consider it deep (though this is largely subjective) - FFXIII's game mechanics are not overwhelmingly deep but they're not shallow either.

Now how many people couldn't manage to solve the entirety of FFXIII with a relaxed, casual state of mind?

You'd be surprised how many people get stuck on it! Look how many boss threads etc we had up when the game was still "new".

no story progession

lol, did you skip cutscenes too? Granted the story progression is not (except Ch9 and end of 11) in your face WTF HUGE REVELATION but it subtly changes throughout. And compared to 12? lol...

no interesting enemies

Good thing there were interesting enemies in 12.

... wait

bad looking dungeon

What is wrong with your TV <_<

And please, stop glorifying the story. It was OK, nothing more. Definitely not good enough to justify the shortcomings of the game.

Well you seem to miss the fact that it progresses subtly, so <_< it wasn't the most amazing story ever but it was miles above 12.

If the game was all about a bigger Gran Pulse without a story I'd probably like it more.

Of course, that's what FF12 basically is ...

Damn, BRP's here. Threads over.

Here to screw up another thread <_>

[Xno Kappa]

Here comes the same old XII vs. XIII hurricane!!!

It's not even so much of a vs. argument the majority of the time, just the same one or two posters that ride into every FF-related thread on their FF12 high horse. Same deal with BRP coming into every major gaming thread and derailing it into oblivion because he thinks he's some kind of gaming savant.

[SaviorSelf]

FF12 sucked too, shitty story.

Spoiler: show

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH j/k don't remember 12 at all :D

[Ansems]

I don't see how 13 is shallow. imo 13 was deep, least for me. then again most people never feel the need to avenged the mothers death or try to see your son for on last time before either of you die. the gameplay could have been different but it was still good. the ending was nice, the last boss was too easy tho. I gave it a 10.

12 was shallow as fuck.