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[Mayareira]

The speed of the transitions barely breaks down on the immersiveness, and the control inside the battle itself is ~equal to or greater than that of FF12's (not only do your roles determine your actions in battle, but they determine your overall strategy (since Sentinel increases damage resistance to all, not just themselves... etc)).

Control in XIII is...equal or greater than XII? What the fuck?

In every serious battle you HAVE to input the majority of commands manually....generally you just gambit-set the routine tasks like provoke. In every serious dungeon you have to adjust gambits, and again, you'll have to input commands manually depending on the monster.

You are probably a not-so-intelligent if you think 13 has equal control with 12...jesus christ. XII is the only FF that you have such a complete control over your characters including their proximity yet just because there are "gambits", imbecilefucktards are claiming that the game plays by itself.

Gambits are printers, refrigirators, telephones, calendars, agendas in an office. You'll have to talk, type and think in order to do some work.

Has been covered many times, but the main enemy of XIII is a concept, not a physical being. Barthandalus just happens to represent this. And guess what - he still had much more presence than any other villain in 12!

And lol at final boss of 13 = Adamantoise... first of all, Long Gui. Second of all, if you want to pull that card... there is absolutely no farming or luck involved in ff12 whatsoever amirite?! We can conveniently ignore ultimate weapons.

Why would we? Hunt is one of the main strengths of 12. Much, much better than the end game of 13. If you think the main enemy, concept or what the fuckever of 13 is better than 12 then I've got nothing to say to you.

Vayne was one of the best/deepest villains in the series.

Towns are not a necessity! Archadia was an incredibly tedious experience. Large areas are just disguising the fact that you are still heading from A to B. Yes, they are better - but not phenomenally so. There is just an illusion of such.

And are you suggesting that all areas of FF13 are not unique? In terms of location, each chapter is distinctly different.

Towns are not a necessity, but....ding! One of the aspects that adds depth to any RPG. Well made towns, well built NPCs, well written dialogues. We were talking about depth originally right?

Large areas are just disguising the fact that you are still heading from A to B? Isn't that the whole fucking point of an adventure? What else you could do, run in circles?!? Start from point A wander around and return back there? That's Nascar, son!. asdsgadfhgadfgadfghadtjsfhsw. You travel, and in order to do that you technically have to go from A to B.

Larger, well built areas add to the depth.

In terms of location, each chapter is distinctly different.

Yes, YES they are all modelled differently. Thank god we are not in 80s playing space invaders.

[BRP]

Few things that people seem to be missing. Weather you like XII or XIII. They are not the same, that is the point of almost every FF game. They are made to be their own.

Actually they are more similar than not. FFXI and FFXII are the only two which play very differently. Comparisons are harder to make FFXII vs FFXIII, but then again if your point is that FFXII is the first time (offline) Final Fantasy outgrew its unfortunate Dragon Quest roots I'd understand why you would bring it up.

BRP I really think you need to go back to the old school RPG's they had a much deeper meaning.
*Dejet kicks BRP in the nuts*

good old days? Or to far back for your liking?

Just what the fuck am I reading? (Actually this entire post is like a drunkard's dream.)

Has been covered many times, but the main enemy of XIII is a concept, not a physical being.

bwahahaha. I am going to use this line forever.

[Hyan]

Large towns can add or take away from the immersion/depth, imo.

I was always bored running around the towns in XII going from one shop to another or looking for the right NPC's. In the worst case I was even in the wrong town and the shop didn't sell X or Y which I needed, resulting in even more annoying traveling.

Just saying tho. XII and XIII are pretty much equal to me.

Anyway BRP, is Mass Effect or it's sequel worth more than 1/5 to you? If so, why? Not trying to derail but I'm just interested.

[Moridam]

i'm changing my original assessment of 7-8 to a 0, fuck treasure hunter, fuck this game. fuck this game completely.

[BRP]

Anyway BRP, is Mass Effect or it's sequel worth more than 1/5 to you? If so, why? Not trying to derail but I'm just interested.

Honest to god I can't even remember Mass Effect that well. I only remember the parts I liked better in ME2 lol. Whenever I watch a youtube video to jog my memory it looks completely unfamiliar, maybe because I am so used to ME2. Mass Effect 2 is a 3/5. An all around improvement from Mass Effect 1(could expand on this, but meh, this is going to be too long as it is). The only thing they diminished in the sequel was how interesting conversations with your teammates and between teammates were. A rather small issue, which is overshadowed by the fact every character is better. (Oh an even smaller problem which just sticks out: The endgame "moral" choice is so much worse than the one from ME1, not that these type of choices ever matter! lol)

Great setting/cool characters. Nice art design, which much more variety. Really good music. The "moral" choices are still stupid(and still fall short on being remotely worthwhile), but the renegade is so fucking funny that I don't even care. Huge improvement on combat but with some big issues which makes the whole game stupid easy(the hardest modes doesn't really fix it, just makes the game so much slower). Indestructible cover + health regen is just so overpowered. During the hardest parts of the game you usually end up slowly soloing the entire peek-a-boo fest while you teammates died minutes ago. (At this point I am starting to really dislike "cover" mechanics found in third person shooters. Especially if they lack the AI or level design for NPCs to counter them) (EDIT: Playing on Vanguard seems like the only really worthwhile way to play if you want any challenge at all)

And to point out the obvious(for some reason I feel I need to) Mass Effect 2 and FFXIII are not related AT ALL.

[Hyan]

Ah, I see. The only reason I'm asking is because I did finish ME1 recently and while I felt it was decent, it just didn't click to me the way it did for many others. If ME2 is any better I'll probably pick that up though.

I felt the art design, which was okay, was overshadowed by the overall generic design of the environments and characters (art wise). And I guess that kind of thing matters a lot more to me than it should to be honest. But to hear there's much more variety sounds good.

The combat (and running around doing quests, fucking elevators) was also something I didn't particularly enjoy, but if it's better in 2 then it's prolly worth picking up. Thanks, and sorry for the derail.

[Nevex]

Uh, you people do realize that role bonuses carry over to the other party members right?
I.e. if you're using a SAB/SYN/SYN setup, debuffs on mobs will last longer since SYN role bonus extends the duration of abilities, whether they're offensive or defensive. That setup saved me a lot of times on Shaolongui's since Daze would last forever.
Likewise casting Death and switching to COMx3 during the spell animation will cause it do do extreme damage since COM role bonus gives a damage boost.
That's quite a lot of strategy you have in there, with paradigm setup alone.

And am I the only one who skipped Adamantoise farming and directly spammed Long Gui's? With 25% drop rate Traps instead of 5% it doesn't really take long to get 6 and by the time you do you'll be very close to have enough gil to get treasure hunter trophy, assuming you've finished all the hunts first. And I actually had lots of fun farming turtles fun lol.

I know both FFXII and FFXIII can potentially run by themselves with gambits and auto-battle options, but I never see them as serious options, they're just grinding tools to me.
I always micromanage against bosses and strong mobs simply because I don't trust the games' AI that much.
Say you're maining Fang's SAB and you want to inflict Imperil and Deprotect on something while aiming for 5-star ranking: if that mob is vulnerable to other status effects you don't need like Slow and Fog, the AI will cycle through them instead of focusing on those you want, effectively slowing you down.
Same goes with SYN's useless buffs or MED not fully healing you; auto-battle is just not a serious option on important stuff.

[Plow]

The point being that the number of options can be superficial and individual options can be pointless. This is true when they end in the same(or an unjustifiable suboptimal) result. More importantly the fact manual doesn't give you much of an edge over AUTOMATIC most of the time means selecting your actions is a superficial choice(basically, a chore which is best skipped).

If you were any good at video games, you'd realize that even when you're doing nothing but basic attacking, the automation will still make mistakes that you wouldn't make if you did it yourself.

Let alone when you actually want to buff/debuff efficiently, etc.

The only class in the game where automatic is fully competitive or possibly better than manual is sentinel, and even that is debatable.

You are right in saying FPS vs JRPG isn't much of a comparison(I did mention Pokemon though!). However what I am trying to get across is that JRPGs are very shallow for the most part. Final Fantasy games in particular seem to be some of the most shallow and stagnant of that breed and this one is no exception. The problem is that Raen doesn't know what depth means in context to games. (Or motion picture it seems. While I am no expert I doubt a movie version of FFXIII would be a good watch. Let me just outsource Archibaldcrane's opinion on that one. I am ACCEPTING his PERSONAL OPINION!) The fact a Final Fantasy game could be called shallow and a plot-less game could be called deep probably perplexes him.

The story is deeper and more immersive. The fact that you think you're the greatest expert in the history of video game knowledge, terminology, and description, and can't discern what the fuck he's talking about when it's really simple perplexes everyone you ever talk to.

Why would I accept an opinion which is flat out wrong? I will happily absorb insights which are valuable. Next you'll tell me you are entitled to your opinion, so let us skip that part altogether shall we?

"I enjoy this" cannot be wrong, sorry.

If you disagree, that means you have differing opinions.

You might understand this if you didn't become a massive troll before you even got to high school.

Where do you get this stuff? I've never said anything close to that. You can be as immersed in games with menus than those without. What the deal breaker is that are you doing anything interesting with(or without) those menus? Even you seem to understand Final Fantasy XIII isn't anything great even when "its get good"(20 hours or so in!). You admit to playing for the storyline or whatever combination of aesthetics.

FF13 got good in my eyes about 20 seconds after inserting the disc. Opening cinematic was awesome, beautiful, exciting, and intriguing.

See, I'm into that kind of thing. If you're not, good for you.

As far as doing interesting things with the menus: see the pages and pages of battle strategy and varying tactics and strategies on this forum alone.

"Gameworlds" are not an activity. You can not be immersed with it.

Existing within a game world is an activity. You can most definitely be immersed in the game world.

That's what the entire fucking rest of the world is talking about when they refer to an immersive experience. What you are specifically, arbitrarily, talking out your ass about, er, defining as the only things that can be immersive are simply small parts of the overall understanding of what immersion in stories and games is.

You're free to have your own definitions, you're retarded for thinking anyone but you is going to subscribe to them.

Looking at "gameworlds"(listening to music, watching cinematics, etc on Youtube if you wanna break it down) could be fun but an annoying battle system(or having to do battles at all!) would just get in the way and shatter the illusion and ruin the pace. Now fighting through a gameworld is what you actually do in Final Fantasy(and god knows how many other games). I am sure you can somehow deny this fact because your "perspective" and "opinion" and blah blah "everyone's different!" but good luck trying to do that without an incomprehensible use of buzzwords and vague concepts.

Holy rofl...

You realize you made absolutely no point there whatsoever, let alone a comprehensible statement, or did anything whatsoever other than fling around buzzwords and vague concepts, right?

Interesting how people use "gameworlds" to justify subpar games. You guys should check out a little game called Dungeon and Dragons. If you find the battle system subpar you can just minimalize it and focus on the game's world.

Is this supposed to be sarcastic? Ironic? Fucking retarded?

You realize there are plenty of people that play D&D that could not care the tiniest bit less about the combat, right?

Or did you eat a bunch of chili one night and end up with your head so far up your ass that you're convinced anyone that likes a game you like only likes it for the exact reasons you choose?

Yeah, where are the DEEP anime cliches at? Again, you simply do not understand the meaning of depth when it comes to videogames(it only makes sense you would use "depth" incorrectly, as you did with "experience" and "immersion" and you will do with "art" "emotion" "feeling" and whatever nonsense/buzzwords comes to your mind if we keep this up for on and on - I don't plan on going that far though).

If you don't like the story, and you think it's cliched, that's fine. If you're unhappy that 6 jobs per person with multitudes of fighting styles, weapons, and other equipment isn't enough of your personal definition of deep, that's fine, too.

That doesn't mean the story didn't have depth.

You know, you should really consider reading a book sometime. I know they went out of style before you were born and all, but there really is a lot to storytelling and delivery. The fact that you can't quite grasp it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

This may come as a shock to you, but you and your d&d friends are not the most technically talented storytellers in the world. You may love their stories so much that you think they are, but there's a reason other people's stories sell millions while the people impressed by yours stops at extremely self-obsessed internet video game discussion trolls.

Picking up your gun and shooting people is a lot deeper than you seem to care to imagine. Simply look at the sheer distance someone can travel in skill above the rest in these "pick up gun and shoot people" simulations. The difference in skill isn't some unexplainable phenomenon.

There are different kinds of skill and depth. Does chess not have depth because you're not smart enough to be good at it... er, I mean, because it's not about quick twitch reaction and hand-eye coordination?

zomg, what about lightning chess?!?!

Now how many people couldn't manage to solve the entirety of FFXIII with a relaxed, casual state of mind? Perhaps 10 year old girls. Let us not even talk about the first half of the game! No matter how good the game gets you are talking about a day of pure boring bullshit.

How many people can't master an fps with a relaxed, casual state of mind?

Perhaps 14 year old boys. Let us not even talk about the entirety of FPS! No matter how good the game gets, you're talking about people that don't even bother with an actual story the vast majority of the time now. Just pure boring bullshit of pointing my mouse and clicking at some pixels as fast as I can.

Arbitrary standards? I think your use of arbitrary is arbitrary. And you expect me to attack people's "non-personal opinions" or something? Now there is a contradiction.

Yeah, nothing arbitrary at all in describing the massive amounts of story setting (holy shit, depth of story? nowai!) as "pure boring bullshit" declared as inarguable fact.

Is this suppose to refute something? Using toothpicks and needles doesn't make a decent wipe.

to draw, pass, or move for or as if for rubbing or cleaning

You can draw, pass, or move for or as if for rubbing or cleaning perfectly decently with my new toothpicks and needles BRP ass wiper (in fact, if I didn't know any better, I would be under the impression you do so on a regular basis). It will be about as productive as reviewing a game based primarily around storytelling without watching or listening to the story.

[Plow]

Tell me this, why is that you seem to think if I say "the story doesn't interest me", you take it as "holy shit this story sucks!"

Find one post where I said the story sucks. Remember though, saying "it doesn't interest me/bores me", doesn't mean "it sucks". I should spread this logic. Do you think something like uh...Dragonball Z sucked? How fucking dare you! You can't say shit unless you watched all 500 episodes and tried to enjoy it.

Spoiler: show

You won't.

Hi:

Game was okay, story, don't know. Read for a bit, didn't really interest me. Seemed boring.

Now really, here's the thing:

3/10.

Just got to chapter 11 since the game was fucking terrible. Run along a one way path, cut-scene, rinse, lather, repeat for 11 chapters or 15 hours of game play give or take. Came down to pick it up for a day or two, and then put it down for a week. Even now, still extremely bored with it and disappointed.

Story wise...lol, never had any idea at all about whats going on, but I sort of blame that on FFXI with spamming through cutscenes because of being in a rush and story not mattering at all on a larger scheme. Wanted to go back and read the compandium(?) thing to see what the story is even about but, refer to last few sentences of first paragraph. Still have no idea what a la'cie, fal'cie, cie'th, cieshit is either.

Battle system, fast but boring. Spam X over and over, don't even need to pay attention. Bosses were a little more difficult, but nothing wtfhard.

Graphics were amazing though. I'm giving it 3/10 based on graphics alone.

All and all, really disappointed, especially since I bought a PS3 just to play this game.

I just didn't care to sit and watch cutscenes of people talking about things. I wanted to be doing things, not watching others. I read the cutscenes up until chapter 3, but after that, I just didn't care for the story at all.

You defined the game as terrible. (Later stating it was ok...) You gave it an overall rating, which would include the story, of 3/10. You stated that the graphics earned those 3 points. That implies the story is the quality of a 0 game.


The main issue is that Final Fantasy games are based largely around the story. When the vast majority of the literal physical content on the disc consists of story, not paying attention to it is probably going to be a pretty huge detriment to your gaming experience.

Further, despite what BRP claims, you cannot reasonably judge an entire game that consists primarily of story without seeing the story. You can judge the combat system, sure. You can judge the experience of existing in the game world as far as exploration, interactivity, beauty, stature, etc., but you cannot effectively judge the game as a whole while not experiencing the majority of it.

[BRP]

Just how many off the cuff insults you going to fit in one post!? There is a 4:1 insult-point ratio going on here. All you are succeeding to do is look really mad. Also thanks for giving me a million things to quote.

can't discern what the fuck he's talking about when it's really simple perplexes everyone you ever talk to.

Except for the parts where I talk about exactly what he mentions. Like, where did I go wrong Plow?

"I enjoy this" cannot be wrong, sorry.

Of course. But FFXIII is "this" or "that" can be wrong.

FF13 got good in my eyes about 20 seconds after inserting the disc. Opening cinematic was awesome, beautiful, exciting, and intriguing.

That's real nice Plow. Bring some Doritos to my house and we'll torrent some anime together. How about Avatar on bootleg too if that is more your taste.

As far as doing interesting things with the menus: see the pages and pages of battle strategy and varying tactics and strategies on this forum alone.

Ever heard of group of forums called Gamefaqs? Please spare me this weak shit. There is no reason to connect a game's depth with amount of forum posts a game generates.

Existing within a game world is an activity.

Good luck trying to exist in an imaginary world! (Also: "Hey Plow, what are you doing today?" "Existing.") You are cracking me up.

You're free to have your own definitions, you're retarded for thinking anyone but you is going to subscribe to them.

Well I guess I am not retarded then.

You realize you made absolutely no point there whatsoever, let alone a comprehensible statement, or did anything whatsoever other than fling around buzzwords and vague concepts, right?

Clearly I have not realized this, thanks for asking though. You should stop wasting my time and point out where I make these mistakes and we should talk about them.

You realize there are plenty of people that play D&D that could not care the tiniest bit less about the combat, right?

Yes, which is why I brought it up. I don't think you read what I wrote down there.

you're convinced anyone that likes a game you like only likes it for the exact reasons you choose?

Ah, but I never said there is only one way to like a game. Plenty of people like many shitty games. There could be many reasons as to why that happens.

If you don't like the story, and you think it's cliched, that's fine... That doesn't mean the story didn't have depth.

Um, why not?

...isn't enough of your personal definition of deep, that's fine, too.

"Personal definition of deep" lol. I think you mean say something along the lines "...isn't enough to satisfy your taste/intelligence".

This may come as a shock to you, but you and your d&d friends are not the most technically talented storytellers in the world.

hahaha, now your insulting my ability to write fiction! Below the belt, sir! I am very confused what this has to do with what was just being said. (Also it depends what you mean by storytelling. You don't really go out your way to tell stories in DnD, things just happen. No script and the plot is entirely fluid.)

You know, you should really consider reading a book sometime. I know they went out of style before you were born and all

Except for the DnD books apparently. And the ones you mention that manage to sell millions.


I mention things like multiple types of skill and the problem with "depth of story" in games and what not in follow-up posts. I guess you didn't read those. HONESTLY THOUGH: A waste of time for you to even try. We've been here before Plow. Your not growing anytime soon.


And moving on to another post:

The main issue is that Final Fantasy games are based largely around the story.

Yes, that does seem to be a problem. Too much focus on story, music, and graphics. Not enough focus on the meat and bones.

When the vast majority of the literal physical content on the disc consists of story, not paying attention to it is probably going to be a pretty huge detriment to your gaming experience.

Actually what takes up the most space on the physical disc is the fucking disc art LOL. Lay off the retarded logic - why does data size matter? And instead of saying "probably" you could be more specific onto why.

Further, despite what BRP claims, you cannot reasonably judge an entire game that consists primarily of story without seeing the story.

You certainly can! What prevents you from doing so? You are talking about the main part(the "activity") of the game. Only thing you couldn't do is make a complete review.

But I think this requires being quoted again:

game that consists primarily of story

I can't think a more messed up statement. There is no such thing as a game that consists primarily of story. Plot in games are always secondarily(if existent at all). This is as true as Final Fantasy as it is for anything else.


I don't know why you bother Plow, don't you REALIZE I have a higher post count than you? You didn't know? Higher numbers = something something. Basically I am always right and I can't be bothered to explain what the number next to my post count has to do with it. This... is Plow-gic.


EDIT: Also I am disappointed my main two opponents are basically the top and one of the top posters of the random question thread. I don't know if that is a good measurable of residency, but I was hoping to avoid the entirety of the FFXIII defense force. It feels like I am invading someone's home.

[dejet]

BRP, if a good amount of people like the game why fight it? you seem to have been at this for some time. The points you are dishing out might be reasons to you, but your reasons do not mean as much to others. Yes the game has its weak points. No one if fighting that.

Most of the people you are fighting with gave it a 7~8. making it a fun game that could of been better. You have valid points, but in most minds is better then the4/10 you gave it.

[Plow]

Just how many off the cuff insults you going to fit in one post!? There is a 4:1 insult-point ratio going on here. All you are succeeding to do is look really mad. Also thanks for giving me a million things to quote.

Most of us have figured out that anything meaningful we say will be either completely ignored, or replied with meaningless drivel so inane you don't even know what you're saying yourself.

It's way more fun to just make fun of you most of the time.

Everything else written is for other people, you're pretty well worthless when it comes to meaningful discussion.

Except for the parts where I talk about exactly what he mentions. Like, where did I go wrong Plow?

You're referring to depth of combat and exploration as the only kind of depth. You're attempting to exclude the story from the whole of the game.

You're idiotic enough in terms of storytelling to think stating that a game with dozens of hours of full on storytelling wouldn't be very good if condensed down to a 2 hour movie time frame is meaningful to anyone with their head on the outside of their body.

Of course. But FFXIII is "this" or "that" can be wrong.

Other people have differing viewpoints on what's deep or immersive enough for them, and in what manners. Get the fuck over yourself and realize that you're going to have an unimaginably terrible life if you go through it attempting to force everyone to comply with your exact choices on how to describe things, and that rather or not they fit your definitions determines their quality, particularly since you're so utterly detached from reality.

That's real nice Plow. Bring some Doritos to my house and we'll torrent some anime together. How about Avatar on bootleg too if that is more your taste.

Don't watch anime, never seen avatar. I've been meaning to catch that, so maybe I'll take you up on that offer.

Jalepeno chips ok instead of Doritos?

Doritos are for pansies that weren't born when most of the terms they're attempting to declare their personal opinions of as raw indisputable fact came about.

Ever heard of group of forums called Gamefaqs? Please spare me this weak shit. There is no reason to connect a game's depth with amount of forum posts a game generates.

Now, see, it's sad, because at least with some people, I know they're not stupid enough to have actually missed my point that badly, and are trying to dodge it. With you... sigh.

I wasn't pointing at the number of posts. I was telling you that if you want to discuss the tactics and strategy, it's already done extensively throughout this forum, so I'm not going to go over it here.

Good luck trying to exist in an imaginary world! (Also: "Hey Plow, what are you doing today?" "Existing.") You are cracking me up.

Thanks. I think I do a pretty damn good job of existing in an imaginary world.

Or is all that save data on my ps3 really just a figment of my imagination?

Ohhhh, I get it. I have to be playing a role to exist, and since no games ever in the history of man fit your definition of role-playing, none of the time we've spent in their worlds actually exists.

Have I found a level of rambling incoherence high enough for you to grasp yet?

Well I guess I am not retarded then.

Holy shit, ladies and gentlemen, you heard it here first.

BRP admits he's aware that nobody else in the world gives a flying fuck about his personal definitions of video game adjectives and adverbs.

Clearly I have not realized this, thanks for asking though. You should stop wasting my time and point out where I make these mistakes and we should talk about them.

I did. That entire fucking quote was exactly what I described.

Hence why I quoted it and replied to it there.

Maybe that's why you look so entirely out of touch with reality, are you just taking random parts of posts and throwing them around in random places and then mixing up all your replies and attaching them to different quotes?

It would make a lot of sense, to be honest...

Yes, which is why I brought it up. I don't think you read what I wrote down there.

Hence why I asked if you're being sarcastic or what. What is your point? Are you attempting to insult FF13 by comparing it unfavorably to one of the most popular games ever? Really?

Hey man, D&D isn't as good as chess. What a fucking shit game that clearly makes it.

Ah, but I never said there is only one way to like a game. Plenty of people like many shitty games. There could be many reasons as to why that happens.

Speaking of completely missing what someone was saying...

You don't give valid descriptions of games in your arguments.

You declare your definition of certain terms, based on how the game fits your definition of those terms, you pass judgment. You further proceed to tell people that if they disagree with you about an aspect of the game, they're wrong because it's not your exact definition.

So yes, you do.

But that's beside the point, as I was still trying to clarify the drivel in the quote you separated that from.

Um, why not?

Really?

I don't like Dungeons and Dragons.

Therefore it's a shallow and cliched game.

Perfect logic, right?

"Personal definition of deep" lol. I think you mean say something along the lines "...isn't enough to satisfy your taste/intelligence".

No, I don't. If you're talking quantity, you are flat out wrong. The raw quantity of depth in FF13 is greater than the vast majority of video games.

If you're talking about quality, then you're using your personal definition.

This isn't a hard concept for someone that's not completely obsessed with their own opinions.

hahaha, now your insulting my ability to write fiction! Below the belt, sir! I am very confused what this has to do with what was just being said. (Also it depends what you mean by storytelling. You don't really go out your way to tell stories in DnD, things just happen. No script and the plot is entirely fluid.)

No. I'm insulting your understanding of storytelling.

Which you just utterly and completely confirmed beyond any possible doubt by claiming that because there's no script and the plot is fluid, D&D is not centered on storytelling.

Except for the DnD books apparently. And the ones you mention that manage to sell millions.

lol... kids say the darndest things

I mention things like multiple types of skill and the problem with "depth of story" in games and what not in follow-up posts. I guess you didn't read those. HONESTLY THOUGH: A waste of time for you to even try. We've been here before Plow. Your not growing anytime soon.

Yeah, see, going through the *entire* thread, this right here:

This basically ruins the game(the experience). The FF13 that is good from the start would certainly get a better score, but maybe not even so. The battle system isn't so good that you could a campaign-less game around it. (So in your words, no story to "bridge" anything, whatever the hell that would mean)

Is quite literally the closest you came to giving any kind of direct justification or analysis on your opinion of the game.

And you gave your initial rating in numbers only.

Literally every other thing you've said, *EVERY SINGLE THING* in this entire thread has been meaningless drivel about what makes a good review, and bitching at people about how they must subscribe to your personal definitions.

And moving on to another post:
Yes, that does seem to be a problem. Too much focus on story, music, and graphics. Not enough focus on the meat and bones.

Entirely your opinion on what is the "meat and bones" of a final fantasy game. When I buy a Final Fantasy game, I buy it for the story. So do countless other people. What you refer to as the meat and bones is secondary to us.

This is personal preference, and you're doing nothing but showing what a self-absorbed douche you really are every time you attempt to declare that your opinion on it is the factual status.

Actually what takes up the most space on the physical disc is the fucking disc art LOL. Lay off the retarded logic - why does data size matter? And instead of saying "probably" you could be more specific onto why.

No, it doesn't. The foil is ridged, it covers much more area. Not to mention, the disc art itself is relatively small, it's all on a white base lair. Don't try to get smart with me, you're not up to it.

Secondly, it's a type of allegory. The point was obviously not the physical space taken on the disc. The point is the bulk of the game is invested into the story.

You certainly can! What prevents you from doing so? You are talking about the main part(the "activity") of the game. Only thing you couldn't do is make a complete review.

The word reasonably prevents you from doing so. Sure, you can pass judgment. You'll just look really dumb.

BRB, watching Avatar without sound so I can reasonably write a review.

But I think this requires being quoted again:

I can't think a more messed up statement. There is no such thing as a game that consists primarily of story. Plot in games are always secondarily(if existent at all). This is as true as Final Fantasy as it is for anything else.

Where do you come up with this shit?

I just don't even know how to begin to reply to this, it's just so absurd.

What do you think they spent the most time working on for FF13? The battle system? The side quests? The monster AI? The command menus? Really? REALLY? You're that completely oblivious to the entire history of gaming?

What makes anything other than the story *primary* to the story in ff13?


Are you really so oblivious to your own actions that you don't realize that the entirety of dungeons and dragons is a method of telling a story, and that the game elements are tools to make the story more interesting?

I don't know why you bother Plow, don't you REALIZE I have a higher post count than you? You didn't know? Higher numbers = something something. Basically I am always right and I can't be bothered to explain what the number next to my post count has to do with it. This... is Plow-gic.

This statement really speaks for itself.

Have fun ignoring the bulk of my post while failing miserable in attempts to wittily deflect attention away from the fact that literally all you ever do is blow hot air out of your ass and keep your nose as close to the jetstream as possible.

[Plow]

Oh, and before you go ahead and do it:

You've already argued, and are going to attempt to repeat and support the argument that no game has ever been primarily story.

Later in the same post, you're going to argue that the reason the story isn't primary to ff13 is because the story cannot be primary in a video game.

Because circular logic works because circular logic works.

[dejet]

The poll seems to have the game at like a 7(just under) so whats there to fight about >.>?

[ArchDizzle]

The poll seems to have the game at like a 7(just under) so whats there to fight about >.>?

61% has it at an 8 or better where do you get your maths?

[BRP]

BRP, if a good amount of people like the game why fight it?

See I don't even understand what you are asking of me here. Why not "fight it"? Disagreement is what naturally occurs from two different point of views. Is someone going to getting hurt if we don't all remain quiet?

Plow, I can't reply to you this moment since it would take me awhile(a long post deserves a long answer) and I really got to put the finishing touches on this assignment and hand it in.

[dejet]

No, reasoning is that a person played the game and had fun, you did not. So just shut up. To them it was a good game, to you it sucked. How is that hard to get?

edit: Im not fighting why you hate it, you gave your reasons, same can be said about whoever is fighting you about how good it is.

[Xno Kappa]

Might as well just lock the thread. Due to the presence of a certain obvious troll, it's all been relegated to insults and incoherent Aizen-style rhetoric nonsense. Oh and the obligatory FF12 > FFlol side-bar conversation from a fanboy hellbent on convincing everyone in every single FF??-related thread.

[BRP]

No, reasoning is that a person played the game and had fun, you did not. So just shut up. To them it was a good game, to you it sucked. How is that hard to get?

edit: Im not fighting why you hate it, you gave your reasons, same can be said about whoever is fighting you about how good it is.

So optimally there would be no arguments on videogames?

[Mayareira]

Some people need to realize that this is a discussion board, not a government controlled soviet TV/Radio channel.