Question about peoples thoughts on incest

[Rhyis.]

http://alannaonline.files.wordpress....ersonafied.jpg

[Stumblingdrunk]

When my Cousin was younger he was abused by his parents, sexually and physically. To save him from the chaos of foster care my parents looked after him. Things didn't go so smoothly though. When we were both younger we used to get up to stuff with our other cousins I think.( see I remember a event with the four of us in pairs but I'm not sure if it's a false memory). Basically naked bumping bodies. I was six or possibly younger , my non abused and abused cousins were a year and a bit olde. And my oldest one, a girl was 2 years older. My unabused male cousin touched me for a while . And naked fondling but it flitted out and since we were both young and very close I put it down to childhood curiosity ( we knew of sex , but not the reality of it. My oldest cousin was only involved the one time and I think that was very first time and was only doing stuff with my brother. My abused cousin did the same as my non abused one. However it carried on continually, every weekend or every time we were alone. When I was young out of fustration he used to smack my head on the ground . We Never had sex , just me naked and being touched . He touched me when we play fought alone or if I walked past him. He'd wait for me to come out of my bedroom and fondle me as I tried to get past. When I started to realise it was wrong I would try to avoid him but he was always there and got me. He never threatened me. But I have these feelings sometimes where I'm "empty" and I just used to walk out my room and let him
do whatever. Occassionally I'd push him to get off me but he was strong and would just keep dry humping and fondling me Till he'd finished. We never spoke about ut. When I was 13 after one event I walked into the bathroom and tried to overdose. He kept touching me till I was 15. I know certain things weren't my fault but I can't forgive
myslf for my part. I used to let him, go to him . Tell him what to do . If I wasn't empty I thought that i'd let him do whatever so we could get it over with and be normal. I got orgasms which I'm ashamed of, even when I was trying to hit him off me. I played house with my sister and told her me and him were going to do mammy n daddy things so she needed to go. I hate myself for it. Even when I did it I hated myself it's like I was doing it on purpose to hurt me . I told mother recently about him touching me, but not my part, I was shaking and sobbing but he lives with a woman and her young daughter and I was frightened for her. My mother beleives me but doesn't want me to tell my counseller and I don't want my mum to find out about my part. I'm twenty and I still can't get it out of my mind . I can't forget how his ling fingernails felt Or the way he said my name in my ear. It used to make me feel sick.'i can't trust any man, my boyfriend I want to send away because I'll only hurt him because sex is nothing to me anymore, and he says my name just like my cousin did. How can you live with it? I don't think it's possible . I look at my mother and guilt just stabs me. My dad used to touch me too but that was during a difficult time in his life and he nearly killed himself for it , I forgive him but that just breaks my heart when I see my mother and just reinforces what men do . Please help me. I love my waste of a life but the memories suffocate me.

[Ksandra]

So Plow is uncomfortable with 2 guys kissing in a superbowl ad, but he'll fuck anything that presents, be it male female or sister?

I don't think you read what Plow was responding to.

[Plow]

I don't think you read what Plow was responding to.

incest, peoples, question, thoughts

[Stumblingdrunk]

incest, peoples, question, thoughts

exactly

[Stumblingdrunk]

Thursday, January 17, 2008
By Dave Mosher

Incest Not So Taboo in Natural World

Thursday, January 17, 2008
By Dave Mosher

* Print
*

This recent story went wide: British fraternal twins who were adopted separately at birth later married without realizing they were brother and sister.

Why does this make us so instantly and overtly squeamish?

Lord David Alton of Liverpool — a member of Britain's House of Lords — discussed the couple's case during a government session on in-vitro fertilization as he pushed for identity rights of children conceived by the technique.

On his Web site, Alton noted that a similar adopted brother-sister marriage was recently avoided through detailed identity records.

• Click here to visit FOXNews.com's Natural Science Center.

Incest is considered taboo in nearly every human culture around the world, researchers have found. Yet as the 21st century waxes, questions about the behavior remain unanswered.

Where does our aversion to incest come from — genetics or society — and what's so bad about it, anyway?

Incestuous ancestry

Scientists think Earth's earliest life emerged about 3.8 billion years ago and slowly evolved into the diversity of organisms seen today.

Until roughly 1.2 billion years ago, however, sex didn't exist.

Nathaniel Wheelwright, an evolutionary biologist at Bowdoin College in Maine, said asexual reproduction was the first type of reproduction to evolve.

In its most basic form, called parthenogenesis, it involves one-celled organisms such as bacteria dividing in two. But more complex creatures do it, too.

"Asexual reproduction is [like] the ultimate in incest because you're breeding with yourself," Wheelwright told LiveScience.
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"You can still see species asexually reproducing, or cloning themselves, in situations where there is no advantage to [sex]," he said, "and you can see species that commit incest where there is no penalty to inbreeding."

Aside from microbes, most of which reproduce asexually, Wheelwright said mountaintops, small islands and other isolated habitats are places where today's incestuous reproducers are most commonly found.

"If your relatives are the only game in town, you don't have much of a choice," he said.

But Wheelwright explained that sexual reproduction — the current reproductive norm among plants and animals — gives creatures a leg-up in life.

"Sex results in ... diverse offspring and maintains a diversity of genes," he said.

It's like nature's way of avoiding putting all its eggs in one basket: Where one copy of a gene may spell doom for one organism, a different version spread through sex in another creature may help it survive.

"People who domesticated plants and animals were likely the first to figure this out," Wheelwright said. "When they inbred, they got lower birth weights, increased embryo death and decreased fertility."

Still, genetic diversity is at times less important than other advantages, such as better guarding of offspring in some African fish that inbreed.

On the whole, however, the risk of incest in plants and animals generally outweighs any of its benefits.

Bad combination

The problem with incest is that it can keep so-called "bad" genes in the gene pool and compound their effects, said Debra Lieberman, an evolutionary psychologist at the University of Hawaii.

"Close genetic relatives run the risk of having offspring that have a reduced chance of surviving," Lieberman said.

To understand the dangers of incest in humans, she explained, one needs to know that DNA — the blueprint of life — is divvied up into two sets of 23 chromosomes for a total of 46 in the average human being.

One set of 23 comes from the father, while the other comes from the mother.

While Lieberman cautioned it's never plain when it comes to genetics, she offered a simplified example to illustrate the risks associated with incest.

"Let's say you get a bad gene, which scientists call deleterious, from your mom. But your dad's copy of the same gene functions normally," Lieberman said. "The good version acts like a backup, effectively preventing disease the bad gene might have caused."

But having a kid with your sibling, she explained, drastically increases the chances of getting two copies of the deleterious gene as compared to reproducing with someone outside of your family.

"Each of you would have a copy of that bad gene, so there's a good chance your kid won't have a normal copy to work with," she said.

Multiply that by any other deleterious genes sprinkled among an estimated 50,000 active genes in humans, she explained, and there are bound to be some life-shortening problems.

Naturally unselected

Because so-called higher organisms such as humans are susceptible to life-shortening genetic combinations, Lieberman thinks nature has weeded out incestuous behavior over time through natural selection.

Humans and other animals, she said, likely evolved ways to detect and avoid mating with their close relatives.

"We don't have DNA goggles to detect our relatives, but I think we've evolved cues that help us do so," Lieberman said, including face recognition and even scent.

But Lieberman thinks the strongest cue humans have is growing up with a sibling under the same roof.

"People refer to this as the Westermarck Effect, which essentially says children who co-reside are much less likely to breed with each other when they reach adulthood," she said.

Even unrelated children who grow up together exhibit avoidance toward inbreeding, she said.

"The Kibbutz communities in Israel are a good example," she said.

Only weeks after birth, mothers give their kids to a "children's society" staffed by trained caregivers.

Lieberman said people raised in the same community are much less likely to marry each other than someone from a neighboring area.

Another example Lieberman noted are 19th-century records of arranged Taiwanese "minor" marriages, where parents would arrange a marriage for their daughter by handing her over to the future groom's household shortly after birth.

"Compared to 'major' marriage arrangements, where a couple meets just before the wedding, minor couples had fewer kids," she told LiveScience. "Minor couples frequently refused to consummate their marriage, so the fathers would stand outside their door until they did."

Lieberman thinks minor couples had such trouble because they grew up with one another, "activating the genetic cues that screamed, 'Avoid mating with this person,'" she said. "Those cues probably didn't get activated with the brother-sister couple who married. They didn't grow up together."

Incestuous mysteries

Although no genes for incest avoidance cues have been pinpointed yet, Lieberman thinks they will eventually be tracked down.

"It would be wonderful to isolate those genes," she said. "I think we will some day, but we need to know if there are other cues used to avoid mating with a relative."

But how does Lieberman explain incestuous behavior both in captive and wild animals, such as juvenile male chimps who attempt sex with their mothers?

"These systems aren't foolproof," she said. "Sometimes the [female chimp mother] lets male offspring mount her if she's frightened and wants to calm down. But most of the time, females squawk and reject the attempts."

David Spain, an emeritus University of Washington anthropologist who has followed incest research since 1968, said incest "defeats the whole point of sex" — mixing up the gene pool — and is ultimately why the behavior is astonishingly rare among first relatives.

"Cousin marriages don't have as much in the way of deleterious effects, so we see those partnerships more often," Spain said. "Evolution weeds out the things that don't work."

Better birth certificates?

Spain thinks the now-unmarried twins, whose identities and annulment details have been concealed, would be fascinating to interview.

"This is definitely a one-in-a-million type thing. The psychoanalyst side of me definitely wants to know what was going through their minds after they discovered they were brother and sister," Spain said, noting that such an analysis might offer important scientific clues about incest.

Other than that, he said, the couple's story simply excites human aversion to incest.

"Just look to popular culture to understand why," he said. "It's sort of like a 'Star Wars' story that ends up with Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia marrying each other."

Yet Dan Boucher, a spokesperson for Lord Alton, said the couple's tale might repeat itself as more people choose to conceive their children through sperm donors.

"A donor can be used to conceive up to 10 children," Boucher said, and according to Alton's Web site up to 25 children have been conceived from a single donor. "That greatly increases the chances of something like this happening again."

Offering two birth certificates to IVF children, he said, could help: One "long" version would indicate the genetic father as well as the mother, while a "short" version without such details could be used to maintain the person's privacy.

"I'm hoping this will become a law by the summer," Boucher said.

[Stumblingdrunk]

Pearl Carter is positively glowing with joy. She has a handsome new boyfriend, is enjoying an active sex life after many years of celibacy and, amazingly, is preparing to become a mother again.

But the retired grandmother isn't carrying the baby herself. She and her young lover have spent a staggering $54,000 hiring a surrogate to help them with their dreams of having a child.

What makes Pearl's decision to become a mum again even more shocking is that her new boyfriend is her biological grandson, 26-year-old Phil Bailey.

Phil is the son of Pearl's daughter Lynette Bailey, and the pair is braving public horror and even prison by breaking one of the last taboos – incest.

However, the pair makes no apologies for their controversial plan to start their own family.

'I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion,' Pearl says. 'I am in love with Phil and he's in love with me. Soon I'll be holding my son or daughter in my arms and Phil will be the proud dad'.

Phil adds, 'I love Pearl with all my heart. I've always been attracted to older women and I think Pearl is gorgeous. Now I'm going to be a dad and I can't wait.

'Yes, we get laughed at and bullied when we go out and kiss in public but we don't care. You can't help who you fall for.'

Pearl was 18 when she fell pregnant with daughter Lynette. She was living with her Catholic parents in Indiana and they insisted she give the baby away, so as not to bring the family into disrepute.
They organised a private adoption and Pearl never again saw her baby girl.

Pearl went on to marry, but she never had any more children. Instead she searched for her lost daughter until finally giving up hope 15 years ago.

Finding each other

In 1983, Pearl's daughter Lynette had a baby of her own, who she named Phil. She raised him as a single mother.

'My mother told me she was adopted when I was 18, and at the same time she told me she'd been diagnosed with brain cancer,' Phil says. 'I was devastated.'

Phil nursed his mum for six months before she died. It was then he decided to track down his grandmother. It took three years before he found an address for Pearl and wrote to her.

'I was stunned to get his letter,' says Pearl, who was now single. 'My heart jumped that I'd be re-united with a grandson. I wrote back immediately and included my phone number.'

When Phil phoned Pearl, the pair admits they were both rather nervous. Pearl told Phil about being forced to give up Lynette for adoption, and Phil told Pearl about his mum dying of cancer.

'We both cried but kept talking for three hours,' she says. 'When he emailed me a photo, I thought what a handsome and sexy man he was before pinching myself – he was my grandson!'

Confused, Pearl talked to a friend, who told her about an article she'd read on Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA), which occurs when close relatives meet as adults and are attracted to each other.

'I could now understand my feelings and realise they weren't wrong,' Pearl says.

In 2006, Phil met his grandmother for the first time.

'From the first moment that I saw him, I knew we would never have a grandmother-grandson relationship,' Pearl remembers happily. 'For the first time in years I felt sexually alive.'

Phil admits that he had the same feelings towards Pearl.

'I wanted to kiss her there and then,' he says. 'My feelings were overwhelming.'

The pair spent the first week shopping, bowling and eating out. During the second week, giggly on wine after a night out, Pearl decided she wasn't going to deny her feelings anymore.

Unexpected feelings

'I called Phil into my bedroom, sat him on the bed, and then I leant over and kissed him,' Pearl says.

'I expected rejection but instead he kissed me back.'

Pearl then explained to Phil what she'd discovered about GSA.

'I was thrilled and excited,' Phil says. 'I could be with Pearl and it was OK because she'd never raised me or been in my life.'

That night, grandmother and grandson became lovers.

'Making love to Pearl was a real eye-opener. It was love combined with all this sexual tension that had been building up,' Phil openly explains.

Phil, a carpenter, agreed to live with Pearl and get a job with a local building firm.

'Living with Phil as my life partner has been amazing. He cooks and cleans and we make love three times a week. We can't keep our hands off each other.'

Twelve months ago, Phil made the shocking admission that he wanted a child. Pearl told him she was desperate for a baby as well, but it was one wish that she couldn't fulfil as she'd already gone through menopause.

The determined pair then decided to use Pearl's retirement money to find a surrogate mother and buy a donor egg to inseminate with Phil's sperm. They placed an ad asking for an open-minded surrogate, and Roxanne Campbell applied. The three met up a few times and hit it off.

'Initially I was shocked,' says Roxanne on learning the couple were related. 'But they're a brilliant pair and I saw how much they loved each other. I know the baby will be loved too.'

The couple sees 30-year-old Roxanne once a month and accompany her for scans, with Pearl playing the part of a pal or the baby's grandmother.

'I am just so happy,' Pearl says.
'I am finally going to be a mum and not forced to give up my child. Phil's going to be a great dad. I never in a million years thought at 72 I'd be "pregnant" and in love with my grandson. I make no apologies and I believe God's given me a second chance.'

I love you Grandma

[Plow]

Wow man, that's a super interesting article, where did you find it?

[Stumblingdrunk]

its about me silly

[Dagren]

What little research has been done on how we choose our sexual/martial partners has pointed toward the belief that we typically choose similar people for sex partners. These two kinda took it to the extreme, or are the extreme proof of the concept.

[Stumblingdrunk]

What little research has been done on how we choose our sexual/martial partners has pointed toward the belief that we typically choose similar people for sex partners. These two kinda took it to the extreme, or are the extreme proof of the concept.

well thanks? youre real supportive and eventually the gay cousins rights coalittion will take effect

[Plow]

well thanks?

You should know you quoted the article that started this thread 2 posts ago.

[Stumblingdrunk]

i didn't quote anything, you be quiet

[Dagren]

That was in reference to this:

This recent story went wide: British fraternal twins who were adopted separately at birth later married without realizing they were brother and sister.

Which was the only part of that article I read. ><

[Obev]

http://alannaonline.files.wordpress....ersonafied.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2yvtkt1.jpg

Charles's own immediate pedigree was exceptionally populated with nieces giving birth to children of their uncles: Charles's mother was niece of Charles's father, being daughter of Maria Anna of Spain (1606–46) and Emperor Ferdinand III. Thus, Empress Maria Anna was simultaneously his aunt and grandmother. This inbreeding had given many in the family hereditary weaknesses. That Habsburg generation was more prone to still-births than were peasants in Spanish villages.

There was also insanity in Charles's family; his great-great-great(-great-great, depending along which lineage one counts) grandmother, Joanna of Castile ("Joanna the Mad"), mother of the Spanish King Charles I (who was also Holy Roman Emperor Charles V) became insane early in life. Joanna was two of Charles' 16 great-great-great-grandmothers, six of his 32 great-great-great-great-grandmothers, and six of his 64 great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers.

Dating to approximately the year 1550, outbreeding in Charles II's lineage had ceased. From then on, all his ancestors were in one way or another descendants of Joanna the Mad and Philip I of Castile, and among these just the royal houses of Spain, Austria, and Bavaria. Charles II's genome was more homozygous than in an average brother-sister offspring. He was born physically and mentally disabled, and disfigured. Possibly through affliction with mandibular prognathism, he was unable to chew. His tongue was so large that his speech could barely be understood, and he frequently drooled. It has been suggested that he suffered from the endocrine disease acromegaly,[3] or his inbred lineage may have led to a combination of rare genetic disorders such as combined pituitary hormone deficiency and distal renal tubular acidosis.

You can rule an empire and be more inbred than a small Norfolk village. If it's good enough for the King of Spain it's good enough for you.

...You creepy fuck.

[Linliel]

Is it wrong to want to fuck someone who is part of your family but isn't related by blood in anyway? Like my "aunt" is 2 years older than me but is my grandfathers kid from his first marriage. So we have no blood relation, just marriage.

Uh I think you'll find a blood relation there. Think about it.

[Deadgye]

Wincest is wincest. No super age differences, and no procreation allowed though. Super Taboo knows how that shit is supposed to work, as do most doujins.

I won't even let my boyfriend cum in my mouth..
Not really. I don't give head.

I found this more disturbing than the article, personally.

[Komm Suesser Tod]

Uh I think you'll find a blood relation there. Think about it.

Thanks for saying something, I thought I was going crazy when I saw that. It was one of those odd situations where you know something, but still doubt it. I was like, uh, there's totally a blood relation there, but I was still unsure of what I knew to be true.

[Linliel]

Thanks for saying something, I thought I was going crazy when I saw that. It was one of those odd situations where you know something, but still doubt it. I was like, uh, there's totally a blood relation there, but I was still unsure of what I knew to be true.

Yeah I honestly can't believe noone else picked up on that, lol. Unless there's something he's not telling us!

[Obev]

Yeah I honestly can't believe noone else picked up on that, lol. Unless there's something he's not telling us!

http://i42.tinypic.com/2wfjll4.png

When your family tree looks like this, it's easy to get confused.