Level 80 sub-jobs and you

[Foldypaws]

I think the issue is that some people (including myself) were not comparing a 37COR vs /37COR, but rather a 75COR vs 75ANY/37COR. When you look at it from that aspect, buffs are half potency (or at least gimped in some way).

Only if you're rolling on a target above 37. Which is not assured, especially if you're doing COR pling (which I have done).

A 75ANY/37COR gives just as strong a hunter's roll to a level 30 party as a 75COR does, for example. (And a 75BRD/37COR can give some wicked buffs as a PL)

What about Healer's roll and the others? My guess if they ALL do, then perhaps Evoker's would as well, which was the original issue: Will it suck subbed or not?

Evoker's does /not/ suffer a level difference penalty, which was my whole point to even start talking about /COR in the first place.

They might add one when they raise the level cap, but as of right now, a level 40 COR gives a full strength evoker's roll to a level 75.

[Asmoranomar]

Evoker's does /not/ suffer a level difference penalty, which was my whole point to even start talking about /COR in the first place.

Thanks. I know you hate repeating yourself but every time someone asks its not always completely clear. Add to the fact that one person will answer the question and two posts later someone will answer it differently...

I see lots of /headbangondesk and /rage!!!!! lol.

[Malacite]

No, but you have to admit, 2h dual wield for WARs would be pretty awesome!

Go play Diablo II

[Crizto]

Go play Diablo II

Diablo III

[Jotaru]

Go play World of Warcraft

ftfy

Idk what the obsession with dual-wielding 2 2H'ers is :/

[GeneJackit]

Any thoughts on a THF/COR or RNG/COR with a QD build....Hellfire+1 w/ Cannon Shells? Sounds broken to me...I wonder if they will allow QD to be subbed or nerfed.

[chazzyphizzle]

culverin +1

[Darkmagi]

I imagine QD damage will have to be cut in some way as SJ or mythic cors would be massively butthurt lol.

[TummieGaruda]

Any thoughts on a THF/COR or RNG/COR with a QD build....Hellfire+1 w/ Cannon Shells? Sounds broken to me...I wonder if they will allow QD to be subbed or nerfed.

I think you mean Culverin since you can only use Cannon Shells with that gun.

It can go 2 ways:

1) Exclusive to COR and not accessible via subs (Like NIN and WHM stances are planned)
2) Allowed to be subbed but the base dmg formula is changed to Gun+Ammo dmg instead of Gun+Ammo*2, and you only get 1 charge instead of two.

Btw...two extra charges at 80 would be nice or possibly a new tier of QD that straight out enfeebles would be nice. Something like Aquilo Shot to Paralyze and then Ice Shot afterwards to enhance the para effect while doing damage.

[Darkmagi]

T2 QD would also fix this I suppose.

[Malacite]

Diablo II did it 1st.

Diablo II wins (also because Necromancer was the shit )


But I'd like if math peoples (ringthree perhaps, he's gewd) to run a comparison of Hasso and 2H DDs and /NIN dual wield.


Let's go with WAR as the prime example, since WAR gets the most out of /NIN arguably (or loses the least anyway)


Will the current 2H trend still stack up at level 90, when Dual Wield III will open up? With a Suppa that's -30% delay which could really break WAR/NIN with Ridill & Maneater.

[Seanr]

how about yall quit bitchin about COR and /COR and go test the shit for your selves.. go 75Whatever/COR and PT with a 37 to see if they get half potency or full potency

[Asmoranomar]

how about yall quit bitchin about COR and /COR and go test the shit for your selves.. go 75Whatever/COR and PT with a 37 to see if they get half potency or full potency

Because I don't have 37COR and the main question had nothing to do with buffing level 37 characters.

Edit: And if you had been following, since this is about level 80, I'd need a level 40 COR to do any tests.

[Foldypaws]

how about yall quit bitchin about COR and /COR and go test the shit for your selves.. go 75Whatever/COR and PT with a 37 to see if they get half potency or full potency

Try reading the thread.

[GeneJackit]

oops....yeah Culverin....thats the one

[Hoshiku]

you'd have to play with it. due to cannon shells stacking to 12 you're going to have a hard time full timing culverin for long fights. i guess you could swap culv + shell on right after you ws and just sacrifice some tp to do two qd every two minutes... would be a question of how many times you lose tp and how much dmg you lose from not being /war or /sam. would be nice to solo mobs the way cor solo mobs though... but would you have some trouble from not being the right kiting sj?

[Foldypaws]

but would you have some trouble from not being the right kiting sj?

There are a lot of COR solos done /RDM, THF/COR is likely just as durable, as most of them it's not feasible to keep SS up.

RNG/COR only a little less.

[ringthree]

Diablo II did it 1st.

Diablo II wins (also because Necromancer was the shit )


But I'd like if math peoples (ringthree perhaps, he's gewd) to run a comparison of Hasso and 2H DDs and /NIN dual wield.


Let's go with WAR as the prime example, since WAR gets the most out of /NIN arguably (or loses the least anyway)


Will the current 2H trend still stack up at level 90, when Dual Wield III will open up? With a Suppa that's -30% delay which could really break WAR/NIN with Ridill & Maneater.

Honestly, we don't know how well it will compare at higher levels. Hasso is a flat 10% reduction so that will remain static presumably. While Dual Wield is getting a boost. The real question for the most part is how will this effect TP gain. It is not so much about the actually amount of swing speed reduction. It's pretty hard to compare because you need to know the values of not just average weapon swing damage but also average WS damage. Then you have to compare them over a set amount of time.

The important thing to remember is that all of the math that people do here are just models of what things should look like in game. No matter how well you play you should never be able to reach the numbers in these models. What Failure says is ultimately the most correct; the model that best reflects reality is the best model. Just because a model looks perfect mathematically does not mean it will even come close to reflecting reality.

As a side note, we need a new indicator of damage. I think it is far past the time that we start using DPS to have a better comparable number than the percentage damage done. Even if we don't use DPS, we need something that is more independent of external factors to compare damage than just looking at raw numbers.

[Byrthnoth]

Most of the COR solos are done /RDM to gain the benefit of 20 MAB, right? RNG/COR and THF/COR still won't have that, and at 80 COR/RDM will have 24 MAB (and Corsair's Tricorne, and potentially Wizard's/Warlock's rolls).

If you do the math out (ignoring Death Penalty), COR wins even assuming the COR isn't putting Wizard's on.

Basically:
Corsair's Gun +1 (D42) + Steel Bullet (D70) + Corsair's Tricorne (D10) = 122 damage
Culivern +1 (D51) + Cannon Shell (D90) = 141 damage

122 * MAB1 >=< 141 * MAB2
MAB1 would be Ugg Pendant, Novio, Moldy, and 24 MAB from /RDM at 80 = 44 MAB
MAB2 would be Ugg Pendant, Novio, and Moldy = 20 MAB

175.7 > 169.2 : COR wins

However, as far as Quickdraw accuracy goes... well, I don't know what COR's AGI options are vs. RNG and THF's, but Mage's Cuffs <<< Seiryu's Kotes, and I don't really see the 13 AGI deficit being entirely made up.

[Spider-Dan]

I think /COR could potentially be quite relevant with the following weapons (particularly given the jobs that can equip them):

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...Failnaught.png
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...aburaArrow.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...7/Rune_Bow.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../RuneArrow.png