May 20th: Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!

[Alleya]

I agree with page 1 Kuya. The fact is that these extremists existed before 9/11 and said the same shit. Only after, when islam became our defacto enemy, did they get any air time. There are religious nuts all over, and the reason you "can" make fun of Jesus et. al. is because there is no profit to be made in broadcasting the frothing of those offended. I know that the Penny Arcade guys have gotten very nasty messages in the past because they made Jesus say bad words. The difference is that it wasn't then carried by the associated press with the headline of "Christiano-extremists threaten cartoonists"

On the issue itself, I support anyone exercising their freedom of speech. I don't care what you say or draw about anyone or anything, and I don't think we should allow ourselves to be bullied (by the media more than the actual extremists, let's be honest here) into censoring something we would not censor in any other context. I do wonder about people's motivations, though. I don't really see a point in denigrating anything just for the sake of denigrating it. If you have a salient point to make about religion, I am all for it, but on the other hand if you just want to be callously irreverent I think that says a lot more about your personality than anything else. I think the symbolism of the day, the purpose of it, and the motivation behind it are all discreet things that are not necessarily related to eachother or even internally consistent.

[Plow]

Remember the calls for violence when Jesus was being held in jail by Pope Bill Donahue for going against him, so they had to have the Jewish kid kill him so he could revive outside, at which point he pulled out a giant ninja boomerang and killed Pope Bill Donahue by slicing him in half, and then replaced him as pope with a rabbit?


Oh, yeah, me either.

[Alleya]

You're not reading the right websites then. The whole point of my post was that the other crazies don't garner attention, and therefore the same perceptions are not formed in the public mind. The fact that it's fashionable to hate muslims and they make an easy target legitimizes paying heed to people who do things others are doing but gaining no attention for, as you are demonstrating.

[Plow]

You're not reading the right websites then. The whole point of my post was that the other crazies don't garner attention, and therefore the same perceptions are not formed in the public mind. The fact that it's fashionable to hate muslims and they make an easy target legitimizes paying heed to people who do things others are doing but gaining no attention for, as you are demonstrating.

What websites should I be reading to find fundamentalist Christians declaring that Matt & Trey need to die and spreading info on where to find them alongside graphic pictures of murdered people who have behaved similarly?


Further, can you find one of these places that has proclaimed it over episodes *that don't show or directly insult Jesus*?


I'm well aware that there are millions and millions of perfectly reasonable Muslims. That does not excuse the ones running around screaming "ISLAM IS THE RELIGION OF PEACE AND LOVE AND IF YOU DISAGREE WE'LL FUCKING KILL YOU!"

[Alleya]

I don't get it. We agree. I don't think they have any right to make threats, I don't think anyone is at fault for reacting negatively to it, and I think it's a bad thing when you let yourself be bullied by them.

I think where we differ here is that you are unwilling to accept that there are nuts in your own religion, which basically comprises 90% of religion threads on BG so I'm not even going to touch that. I already described a scenario in which threats were made against creators by Christians that I have first hand knowledge of in my original post. I don't think the onus is really on me to go out and dig up the ravings of every backwood bible thumper to satisfy your partisanship until we at last arrive at some instance where I can't produce said evidence and you claim victory.

My point has only been that muslims are being targeted specifically by the media because of a prejudice against them and it is warping the public perception.

[Plow]

Meanwhile, you're assuming I'm not only Christian, but a right wing politically active Christian.

Even defending religion in general from people that are too uninformed to be capable of insulting any other than Christianity has me labeled a partisan, Christian, religious nut around here.


I wonder why?


Could it be the massive amounts of attention that are given to ridiculous Christian nutbags leads to people grouping anyone that doesn't hate Christianity as evil Christians?

Nah, they're too busy knowing the name of even a single Muslim preacher in America.

[Alleya]

When I watched you defend the pope so vehemently I kinda assumed. People are judged by their actions, y'know.

Whatever you are you do seem very reluctant to admit there are nuts on all sides.

[Plow]

First off, vehement defense is a terribly (intentionally) excessive and dishonest wording for what I said in the pope threads.


Secondly, so you assumed, what a shocker.


Lastly:

Whatever you are you do seem very reluctant to admit there are nuts on all sides.

massive amounts of attention that are given to ridiculous Christian nutbags

You're right, I do everything I can to avoid admitting there are nuts on the side you've declared me as.

[Alleya]

Ok so...basically we actually agree on every point and you're fighting me for no reason? lol I don't get this conversation at all.

[Kuya]

Welcome to arguing with plow 101.

[Plow]

Ok so...basically we actually agree on every point and you're fighting me for no reason? lol I don't get this conversation at all.

I'm arguing against the idea that crazy Muslims get more attention than crazy Christians.


Most specifically this statement:

There are religious nuts all over, and the reason you "can" make fun of Jesus et. al. is because there is no profit to be made in broadcasting the frothing of those offended. I know that the Penny Arcade guys have gotten very nasty messages in the past because they made Jesus say bad words. The difference is that it wasn't then carried by the associated press with the headline of "Christiano-extremists threaten cartoonists"

And the fact that you're using less coverage for people speaking out as compared to more coverage for *death threats* as some kind of evidence to support it.

I mean, it's not like when Tiller got killed 90% of the media started screaming about crazy Christian terrorists or anything, right?

[Plow]

Is the typical American as aware of Phelps being a fucking psycho as bin Ladin?


Nope.


Would they be if he killed thousands of innocent Americans?


I dunno, ask Tim McVeigh.

Spoiler: show

Welcome to arguing with plow 101.

However, I won't really argue with this... seems like 9/10 people arguing with me don't even realize that I'm not disagreeing on 90% of what they say, they just assume since I disagree with the most absurd that I'm a full on proponent of the opposite end of that absurdity. This exchange being a perfect example.

[Kuya]

Actually, some of the media, particularly if it happened to be right-wing, avoided qualifying tiller's killer as a terrorist, in fact, you also paraded agaisnt the idea of calling him a terrorist too, until what was obvious to everyone else made itself even more obvious to even fools such as yourself.

[Plow]

Actually, some of the media, particularly if it happened to be right-wing, avoided qualifying tiller's killer as a terrorist, in fact, you also paraded agaisnt the idea of calling him a terrorist too, until what was obvious to everyone else made itself even more obvious to even fools such as yourself.

Not at all.

Your claims of being "obvious" were downright idiotic to anyone that's actually been around the Tiller situation for their whole lives. Most of the people who have acted out against Tiller directly had no goals whatsoever of impacting other abortion doctors, they were functioning under the sole ideal of stopping that one person from killing children.

Which, being such non-nuts, resulted in such brilliant ideas as laying their children down in front of car tires to stop them from driving into his driveway.



The fact that so many people were instantly screaming terrorism blah blah is perfect evidence that *when you fucking kill people* you get a different reaction than when you speak out. Hence my bringing it up.

[Plow]

Example that I cannot support in any way:

My sister's best friend when we were younger was part of a family with 7 or 8 kids that were hardcore Catholics.

They demonstrated against Tiller regularly, especially during the big ones in the early 90's.

The only time I ever heard any of them say anything about another abortionist was saying that they wouldn't go to a certain hospital because it does abortions.

No other protests, not even the "active" hatred.


You just don't understand that the Tiller situation was a completely different deal from basic anti-abortion ideals.

[Kuya]

I honestly think we need to start collectively ignoring plow. He has been doing this shit consistently for over a year now.

here's the abortion doctor murder thread:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...bortion&page=3

You guys remember that thread? It's where plow went on a tirade, picking fights with everyone in the thread, seemingly for the only purpose of starting a meaningless argument. He kept insisting how bias people were for using the terrorist label, but at the end of the day those people were right. He does this everytime. Picks up some stupid argument accusing people of being short sighted, bias, or whatever, usually ignoring the argument being had at hand, and then derailing the thread with pointless debate.

It should be law of the land that in any given thread plow posts in, his only intention is to antagonize and to accuse people of some sort of bias.

[Plow]

Plow is generally right, and I have no legitimate arguments for much of anything, so I'm just going to continue trying to troll all his arguments into oblivion, because reasonable people will get in the way of communist progress.

Yeah, yeah, we know.


If you were stupid enough to ignore me you'd have done so years ago. But, that would leave you trying to become a political activist by posting the same bullshit over and over again on a meaningless internet video game forum, completely unprepared for legitimate arguments against you unless the "appropriate" counter argument response has already been laid out for you in a book.


Oh, wait...

[Kuya]

If you were stupid enough to ignore me

lol

[Plow]

What, you think nobody else has realized that you can't make an argument without people laying out specific points for you to look up and respond to?


You think we actually believe that your constant posting of extremely biased editorial writing with "what do you think" at the end is anything *other* than Faux News-ism?

[Correction]

trolls trolling trolls