Random Question Thread X: Fucking 99 Level Cap, How Does it Work?

[Midnightjade]

A question on Primal Rend. Wiki says that Magic Attack Bonus increases damage dealt, such that MAB+5 = +5% damage.

I was playing around with this in Sky as BST/NIN on flamingoes, with and without Moldy Earring and Uggy Pendant with latent triggered (20/71mp), and around +45CHR as hume. I saw no difference in damage with and without the cumulative MAB+13, whether using ws macro or just setting it up manually. Values on all ws were 633-650.

Am I missing something? It was only a small sample size but I was expecting +13% difference to be really very obvious.

Thanks.

[Dooom]

I can see zero point in PUP in Einherjar if said PUP has another melee job. Assuming you do Ein like most shells I know of, with melee getting at least 2 bard songs and normally another buffer too, then pup is gonna lose out heavily as the robot doesn't benefit from such buffs. Even if you don't buff your melee like mad, the robot is too fragile to survive compared to a DD.

only use i see for pup in einherjar is elementals or so

That's only one mob out of many possibilities, and warriors using Tomahawk makes this even less of an issue, so yeah.

We simply say, if you refuse to play a job for us in Dynamis, you don't get to lot on armour for that job and it covers it.

As I see it, there's a difference between refusing to play a job ("Member X, come bard please", "No FU I'm coming dnc!"), and being told not to use it ("Sorry man, I know you love PUP but it just doesn't fit in here, can you bring another job?"). One is leader-imposed, the other is your member being selfish.

[Streak]

I want an opinion here. If you had a member apply to dynamis and einherjar and they offered both MNK and PUP on their app, would you let them bring PUP to Einherjar? I don't mind so much for Dynamis, PUP is a versatile job which the player in question gears and plays well. We simply say, if you refuse to play a job for us in Dynamis, you don't get to lot on armour for that job and it covers it.

Assuming both jobs are equally well geared (good but not exceptional) would you ever let someone bring PUP over MNK to Einherjar? My reaction was pretty much 'no way' but I want to make sure I'm not being unreasonable and that my opinion on PUP isn't outdated.

I have both jobs too. Historically my pup usually performs better by chain nuking. On my best Einherjar I dropped 47 tier IV nukes in 30 minutes for average of 900 each, easily outdamaging the entire alliance. I'll admit my LS isn't great at Einherjar... but I didn't expect to top everyone's damage by such a large margin. However there are also nights where people do stupid shit and get my puppet killed despite my best effects, and I'm stuck falling back on hand to hand with no pet which is almost a wasted spot.

That being said there are just as many nights where my mnk is stuck in a retard party with no healer or bards (ie I'm dead 2 minutes into the run for the entire run). Pup is nice because it does what it does with no need for any support. No bard, refresh, cures are really needed for it to perform at peak effectiveness.

But because the puppet is pretty vulnerable (a bit less so than it used to be, but not by much) it's a bit of a gamble... I wouldn't say "never" to pup in einherjar. With proper support the monk is probably a safer choice. With less support or in a spare party, pup is going to be better.

[Dooom]

Not to be an ass, but you make it sound like "pup is good if your LS sucks at Einherjar and setting up proper parties". DD pt with no healer at all, wtf? One robot out-damaging an ally? Either your DD are terribad, or you're lying.

[Fingerspitz]

If you're /SAM:
OAT GA is D76, 498 Delay, 40% (supposedly) DA rate, 20% natural DA from Merits/Brutal, 6 Acc, 6 Atk = 52% DA (competitive)
Fortitude Axe is D64, 504 Delay, 50% DA rate, 22% DA from merits/brutal/pole = 39/51.4/19.6 (constructive, DA can proc on either swing of a stone proc, 4-hit rounds suppressed down to 3-hit rounds).

So Fortitude Axe attacks almost perfectly 2 times per round on average, while the Magian GA attacks (supposedly) 1.52 times. Fort Axe demolishes on DoT (13.9 vs. 15.3), and we'd expect it to have higher WS frequency because you swing more frequently. The WSs will be a little weaker (less than 16% weaker due to WS mods).

Yeah, I'd say Fort Axe wins or at least ties pretty much everywhere. The downside to multi-hits is that they feed TP like crazy, but if that's a concern you shouldn't be using either multi-hit GA really.

I doubt this affects the outcome, but you do have to give up fire bomblet to use stones, right?

[ZhiGaruda]

Not to be an ass, but you make it sound like "pup is good if your LS sucks at Einherjar and setting up proper parties". DD pt with no healer at all, wtf? One robot out-damaging an ally? Either your DD are terribad, or you're lying.

That's not exactly what he said, really. Assuming he has 25+ people in his Einherjar, and also assuming a tier 1 or 2, I don't think it's all that hard to believe that he won the parse with that many nukes, truly averaging that much.

It doesn't mean the DD's suck - I mean, any BLM could easily double that figure, if they had no problem dying. The automaton just does it with next-to-no hate gain, giving it the edge to "go all out" persay.

[ZhiGaruda]

I doubt this affects the outcome, but you do have to give up fire bomblet to use stones, right?

Correct

[Dooom]

That's not exactly what he said, really. Assuming he has 25+ people in his Einherjar, and also assuming a tier 1 or 2, I don't think it's all that hard to believe that he won the parse with that many nukes, truly averaging that much.

Eh, I was reading it as in his damage beat an alliance worth combined. To say he was top DD I can believe, but to say he did more than 9 or so DDs combined seems hard to believe (I've seen some sub-par shells where one DD has beat an entire 6 DD combined, so I know stuff like this happens). guess I mis-understood, my bad.

[ZhiGaruda]

After re-reading, I can definitely see why you read it that way. "Easily outdamaging the entire alliance" etc

[Chen]

is there a cap on +enmity?

i know sentinel puts you at +100enmity, and you can't go above it, i was wanting to know outside of sentinel conditions

is +50 the cap?

[Thorny]

That's not exactly what he said, really. Assuming he has 25+ people in his Einherjar, and also assuming a tier 1 or 2, I don't think it's all that hard to believe that he won the parse with that many nukes, truly averaging that much.

It doesn't mean the DD's suck - I mean, any BLM could easily double that figure, if they had no problem dying. The automaton just does it with next-to-no hate gain, giving it the edge to "go all out" persay.

Average 900 WS, 25 secs per tp = >60 ws during a run, don't see it. You can say DD won't be engaged constantly, but neither will the puppet, and T4s have a 10 second casting time before considering recast and needing to deactivate for MP. Ideal conditions, a good DD still beats a good PUP.

[ZhiGaruda]

is there a cap on +enmity?

i know sentinel puts you at +100enmity, and you can't go above it, i was wanting to know outside of sentinel conditions

is +50 the cap?

There is always a +100 cap on enmity, sentinel or not. On the other hand, the other side of the cap is -50 enmity. If you put in in a different perspective, it makes sense:

You can double your enmity gain with +100, or half your enmity gain with -50. +100/-100 aren't the same thing, as we're dealing in percentages here. -100 would put you at zero hate gain.

[ZhiGaruda]

Average 900 WS, 25 secs per tp = >60 ws during a run, don't see it. You can say DD won't be engaged constantly, but neither will the puppet, and T4s have a 10 second casting time before considering recast and needing to deactivate for MP. Ideal conditions, a good DD still beats a good PUP.

I wasn't basing it on anything in particular, just saying that Dooom completely dismissing him is unneccesary. Again, assuming his DD's weren't all that spectacular, it's not hard to imagine he truly did out damage them. Even having the DD's die once each over the course of the run, which usually happens with newer players doing Einherjar, that cuts down on their damage for anywhere from 6-10 minutes depending on how long they take to get a raise. Definitely possible assuming his PUP never got owned. He also was stating they don't always have BRD/COR's for DD's, so that can even moreso skew the win towards the PUP.

[Thorny]

It could happen, just making sure people didn't get the impression it was a good choice to bring nuking pups to einherjar. If you have ideal conditions, a DD will win by far. If you don't have ideal conditions, good chance the puppet will die and be completely worthless.

[Chen]

thanks zhi, makes sense.

[Maurauc]

Okay, I have some nub questions, which I hope people can help me with.

i) In what situations is the Hecate's Cape more suitable for nuking on BLM than, say, Ixion Cape?

2) I'm liking the look of the OAT Magian NIN katana. Is it worth upgrading compared to, say, the DEX/ACC katana? I'm not exactly well geared at the moment. And I guess as an extra.. Would two OAT katanas be feasible?

c) Is it easier to solo Erebus/Feuerunke in Beaucedine or Xarcabard?

Ta guys!

[Thorny]

i) In what situations is the Hecate's Cape more suitable for nuking on BLM than, say, Ixion Cape?

Essentially all of them.

2) I'm liking the look of the OAT Magian NIN katana. Is it worth upgrading compared to, say, the DEX/ACC katana? I'm not exactly well geared at the moment. And I guess as an extra.. Would two OAT katanas be feasible?

OAT is the best, period. You can't get two, it's rare marked unlike most other magian weapons.

c) Is it easier to solo Erebus/Feuerunke in Beaucedine or Xarcabard?

Doesn't matter, if you're pinning you can do it in your sleep anyway and if you're doing Erebus you can solo him anywhere anyway.

[Deader2818]

Okay, I have some nub questions, which I hope people can help me with.

i) In what situations is the Hecate's Cape more suitable for nuking on BLM than, say, Ixion Cape?

From what ive mathed out, on TIV nukes, both capes will preform the same dmg but when you do AMII and Ga III, Hecate will do about 5-15 more dmg.

[Maurauc]

Sweet, cheers to you both. And thanks Thorny, never realised they were rare. I need to look more closely at stuff.
What would be a viable off-hand then? Perdu? Another Magian?

[Thorny]

I have yet to math them, but a DEX/ACC Kuina mainhanded with DMG+13 Isatu offhand seems to be the best combination for pure damage atm, with d:43 Mozu coming in a bit behind for mainhand.