Random Question Thread X: Fucking 99 Level Cap, How Does it Work?

[Rehn]

Where's a good spot to farm organs for virtue stones?

[Cream Soda]

Is there any easy way to cap Guard on MNK? I'm currently at 110 and want to atleast get it 200+
Good places to start, sub job and gear needed?
Thanks.

it depends if you want to solo it or have support, but, I'll tell you now. Absolutely 0 noticeable difference on anything that matters since I've capped guard well over a year ago. If the mobs are EM or lower, I can get a decent proc rate, but with these mobs, they hit for so little damage or just plain miss to begin with, it's not worth the trouble. On any mob that's worth a damn, you don't notice any diff unless you whore guard+ in every slot, which is counter productive, as a PDT set would be better.

That out of the way, if you have a rdm for support phal II and grab a shitload of mandies and take em all at once

[Cream Soda]

Where's a good spot to farm organs for virtue stones?

Xzomit families, mama xzomit is 100% drop on organ. Can kill 1 at a time and get the mama before the babies repop (babies don't link or aggro but if you pull mama u get both babies).

[Nightfyre]

Where's a good spot to farm organs for virtue stones?

If you've got BLM, mama Xzomits drop organs 100% of the time. Can farm them outside the entrance to the palace easily and zone hate on the babies. Other jobs can farm them fine as well, you just have to kill the babies (and the mother before they repop) rather than sleep them.

Wow, so this is Thorny when he is proven to be talking out of his ass and throws a fit about it.

I'm not going to take a stance either way here but you have proven or disproven absolutely nothing in this discussion.

[isladar]

Less fites, more maths.

[lilfoo]

When can a lvling PLD start doing campaign for decent exp? I was thinking ~60 b4 I could tank the mobs there.

[Rocl]

You get 80% of the normal EXP past 46, so you might be able to get good EXP then but 61+ is a safe bet, as that's when you get 100% of your EXP. (It might be 60? idk)

[Neosutra]

I'm not going to take a stance either way here but you have proven or disproven absolutely nothing in this discussion.

There has been a lot of discussion on other sites about this, so most of this isnt my work, dont want to take credit for other people's maths:

Let's try TD (thunder dakani) versus SK, with Blau main/offhand for each. Then after we can talk about TD/TD:

Base, 17% Haste, 90% acc, 1.000 cRatio, +6 sTP, +3 fSTR. Hypothetical WS @ 100 tp exactly every time. No TP return, 1st hit Always lands.

Time = 3600 seconds (1 hr)
Hits:
B/SK = 1028 rds x .9 = 925 rds /hit
TD/B = 923 rds x .95 = 876 rds /hit

TP:
B/SK = 925 hits x 2 x 4.7 tp/hit = 8695 tp
TD/B = 876 hits x 2 x 4.8 tp/hit = 8409.6 tp

DoT:
B/SK = 60125
TD/B = 63948

WS: Dancing Edge Acc 90%, WSC 40, fSTR 10, cRatio 1.000
B/SK = 86 WS, 48 6-hit, 23 5-hit, 10 4-hit, 4 3-hit, 1 2-hit
Damage = 38885
TD/B = 84 WS, 61 6-hit, 18 5-hit, 4 4-hit, 1 3-hit
Damage = 41574

Conclusion:
DoT: TD/B @ +3823 [+6.4%], (TD/B @ +123 if Wind Damage proc avg is +4)
WS: TD/B @ +2689 [+6.9%]

Caveats:
1. Not factoring TP return favors the slower TP gain of TD/B, could skew results of WS in favor of B/SK
2. Neither set can get exactly 100 tp in TP phase, so WS total is not exactly accurate.

Case 1: 32% Haste, 90% acc, 1.000 cRatio, +6 sTP, +3 fSTR. Hypothetical WS @ 100 tp exactly every time. No TP return, 1st hit Always lands.

Time = 3600 seconds (1 hr)
Hits:
B/SK = 1250 rds x .9 = 1125 rds /hit
TD/B = 1125 rds x .95 = 1068 rds /hit

TP:
B/SK = 1125 hits x 2 x 4.7 tp/hit = 10575 tp
TD/B = 1068 hits x 2 x 4.8 tp/hit = 10252.8 tp

DoT:
B/SK = 73125
TD/B = 77964

WS: Dancing Edge Acc 90%, WSC 40, fSTR 10, cRatio 1.000
B/SK = 105 WS, 59 6-hit, 28 5-hit, 13 4-hit, 4 3-hit, 1 2-hit
Damage = 47642
TD/B = 102 WS, 74 6-hit, 22 5-hit, 5 4-hit, 1 3-hit
Damage = 50501

Conclusion:
DoT: TD/B @ +4839 [+6.6%], (TD/B @ +339 if Wind Damage proc avg is +4)
WS: TD/B @ +2859 [+6.0%]

Case 2: 52% Haste, 90% acc, 1.000 cRatio, +6 sTP, +3 fSTR. Hypothetical WS @ 100 tp exactly every time. No TP return, 1st hit Always lands.*

Time = 3600 seconds (1 hr)
Hits:
B/SK = 1773 rds x .9 = 1595 rds /hit
TD/B = 1585 rds x .95 = 1505 rds /hit

TP:
B/SK = 1595 hits x 2 x 4.7 tp/hit = 14993 tp
TD/B = 1505 hits x 2 x 4.8 tp/hit = 14448 tp

DoT:
B/SK = 103675
TD/B = 109865

WS: Dancing Edge Acc 90%, WSC 40, fSTR 10, cRatio 1.000
B/SK = 149 WS, 83 6-hit, 40 5-hit, 19 4-hit, 6 3-hit, 1 2-hit
Damage = 67556
TD/B = 144 WS, 105 6-hit, 30 5-hit, 7 4-hit, 2 3-hit
Damage = 71245

Conclusion:
DoT: TD/B @ +6190 [+6.0%], (TD/B @ -190 if Wind Damage proc avg is +4)
WS: TD/B @ +3689 [+5.5%]

Note: that's not taking into account +Dex added for your SAs during all of this.

Note: that in capped acc situations (where you've swapped out all other pieces for +haste or + attack and are still capped, blau/SK woops some ass).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let's take a look at TD/TD:

This was from Mistress Melphina on Zham, arguing for TD/Blau over TD/TD:

I'd still take the TD/Blau over TD/TD. Meldi's conclusions were the same as my own. The DoT aspect of TD/Blau is several percent higher than that of TD/TD and SA is a wash. Remember that 1 base damage equates to 0.5 base damage averaged per round but 12 delay and 16 attack is considerably better than 5 accuracy in pure DoT stats. WS can be iffy but it isn't too terribly sketchy if your accuracy is in the ballpark of where it should be (especially if you're considering ManStab since TD/TD leans to favoring multi hit whereas TD/Blau favors everything well). When considering weaponskill frequency the increased tp gain of the TD/TD through 5 accuracy is countered by the faster swings of 12 less delay from TD/blau, and in weaponskill damage itself dex mods and accuracy is weighted against the approximate 5% average pDIF increase of 16 attack. The offhand swing getting 1 base damage more is so microscopic it's irrelevant to this calculation. TD/TD can pull ahead in weaponskill damage, but overall the margin is too small for me to count on it with the bigger picture in mind.

I've played with numbers myself and I'll agree it's pretty close, but I'll take the TD/Blau personally. The closing argument is that the comparison REQUIRES the use of the extra accuracy. If your accuracy overshoots the cap the TD/Blau will be hands down better than TD/TD in every department save SA (again, being a wash). I prefer the consistent performance increase of the TD/blau over the TD/TD because I know it'll be useful 100% of the time whereas TD/TD only stands a chance when acc is uncapped, and even when it is my "big picture" figures lean towards TD/Blau anyway. I consider TD/TD a gamble whereas TD/Blau is a sure thing and I'd prefer the sure thing myself. Maybe that's just me though? But I doubt I'm alone with that train of thought."

Her basic argument is that the 12 delay and 12 attack over 1 base damage, 4 dex, and 5 acc ensures blau will win. This is fine when you are still far enough under cap where the added acc doesnt allow you to swap out other spots, but when you are near enough to cap to where the extra acc/dex allows swapping in +att or +haste in neck/back/head/body, then the Dex dagger pulls ahead in DoT, WS frequency, and WS damage.

So the conclusion would be:

TD/Blau = when you arent vastly overcapped in acc and cant swap out other acc gear slots for haste/attack without sacrificing hit rate %.

TD/TD = when you arent overcapped in acc and can swap out other acc gear for +haste/att gear and still stay near acc cap.

Blau/SK = when you are overcapped on acc and wearing full haste/att gear other spots.

Xs/blau = when you're fighting higher end mobs where SA/TA is the majority of your damage.

FD/FD = Capped on ACC, during Zerging, on things where your attack wont be capped (JoL Def), missing angon, etc.

[Nightfyre]

Note: that in capped acc situations (where you've swapped out all other pieces for +haste or + attack and are still capped, blau/SK woops some ass).

This is what Thorny's been driving at. In most of the situations where THF melee is viable, you'll cap accuracy with full haste gear, Blau/SK, and the appropriate food. For the odd high-eva mob, you generally have Feint at your disposal. Between these two factors, there are very few (if any, depends on how you use your THF etc) situations where a THF should be engaged fulltime and won't cap accuracy the majority of the time with Blau/SK.

He's not arguing Dakini/Blau isn't better when you need the accuracy, he's arguing you basically never need the accuracy. If I misread, well, I'm sure he'll be back in soon enough to straighten things out.

EDIT: Forgot to add my own point. As the disagreement is at the application level rather than the theory level, you need to show that situation(s) actually exist in-game that warrant the time to construct a Dakini, not that it's superior in a hypothetical situation.

[Deader2818]

If thats the case, seems look good info to have since not sure how things will be with 80 cap and might need that acc.

[Baha]

Her basic argument is that the 12 delay and 12 attack over 1 base damage, 4 dex, and 5 acc ensures blau will win. This is fine when you are still far enough under cap where the added acc doesnt allow you to swap out other spots, but when you are near enough to cap to where the extra acc/dex allows swapping in +att or +haste in neck/back/head/body, then the Dex dagger pulls ahead in DoT, WS frequency, and WS damage.

Not sure if I understand the swapping other slots argument.
So accDakini can be better because it allows you to switch from Love torque to Tiercel or Cuch to Forager's? Cuch+blau or Forager's+accDakini, for example is 4dex 4str 16atk 10acc (BD/Cuch) vs 4dex 3str 8acc 15atk (accDakini/Forager's). (not adding acc from dex etc for clarity) I'd say the 12delay wins out against 1DMG myself too.

Can see the merit in accDakini/Blau, but double accDakini's seems a bit too situational to me. Haste swaps are probably more productive than the back swap, but still, unsure if eg. accDakinix2+6% haste helm or accDakinix2+Tiercel would be much of a difference compared with Blau and turban or Love torque. Not about to math it all out to try and prove a point though.

[Nightfyre]

If thats the case, seems look good info to have since not sure how things will be with 80 cap and might need that acc.

Aren't there going to be additional trials with the 80 cap update? Kind of renders the discussion irrelevant to 80 cap since we don't know how the magian weapons will progress or if Blau will get a trial.

[Byrthnoth]

Where's a good spot to farm organs for virtue stones?

If you can farm them efficiently (BLU works best, BLM is second best imop), you could try to kill Ghrahs inside. They're 75-77 and you would be able to chain 5 them on BLU with a little practice. Ghrah M chips can be used to pop Jailer of Fortitude, or sold for about 30k each on Lakshmi at least. Lumorian chips can be turned into Virtue stones.

[CubsWoo]

I currently have a Mirke augemented for PUP with ACC+10 Pet ACC/RACC +15. Just got Pantin Tobe to drop yesterday - should I keep the Mirke as is or re-augment for PetMAB/MACC (with some other throwaway stat) and use Tobe for melee?

[Nightfyre]

BLU works best

COMMENCE THE SHITTING OF BRICKS

Out of curiosity, where did you camp to hit chain 5?

[Deader2818]

Aren't there going to be additional trials with the 80 cap update? Kind of renders the discussion irrelevant to 80 cap since we don't know how the magian weapons will progress or if Blau will get a trial.

Even if they do, still doesnt mean the info isnt good to have depending on how things will scale up to 80.

Really, discussion went off on who has the bigger unit. They both showed why one is good in one situation, and why one is good in another.

[Byrthnoth]

COMMENCE THE SHITTING OF BRICKS

Out of curiosity, where did you camp to hit chain 5?

I haven't done BLU myself, farmed my 20 stacks on BLM/NIN (expect chain 3 at most q.q). I've thrown away about 30 stacks of virtue stone pouches, kept 4 stacks, and I've been using them with Justice Sword/Fortitude Axe the whole time so I figure 2 Lum : 1 Ghrah M drop rate is probably right.

However, a friend was telling me about how own farming experience on BLU (hence Chain 5). I can see how BLU could totally demolish Ghrahs (Head Butt -aga III, MP Drainkiss, Big-3 them to death, maybe rest a few ticks after chain 2 or 3), and I imagine that getting into the Fire tower (North East) they could almost certainly chain 5 with good gear and a good MP drain set. As long as they can avoid Zdeis, there are 6 Fire Ghrahs available to them (no quick AoE spells like Poisonga or Diaga, no debuffs, not very strong nukes, wastes time casting AM).

[Nightfyre]

I haven't done BLU myself, farmed my 20 stacks on BLM/NIN (expect chain 3 at most q.q). I've thrown away about 30 stacks of virtue stone pouches, kept 4 stacks, and I've been using them with Justice Sword/Fortitude Axe the whole time so I figure 2 Lum : 1 Ghrah M drop rate is probably right.

However, a friend was telling me about how own farming experience on BLU (hence Chain 5). I can see how BLU could totally demolish Ghrahs (Head Butt -aga III, MP Drainkiss, Big-3 them to death, maybe rest a few ticks after chain 2 or 3), and I imagine that getting into the Fire tower (North East) they could almost certainly chain 5 with good gear and a good MP drain set. As long as they can avoid Zdeis, there are 6 Fire Ghrahs available to them (no quick AoE spells like Poisonga or Diaga, no debuffs, not very strong nukes, wastes time casting AM).

Cool, thanks. Need some virtue stones and Fortitude is a stingy cunt so I'll be looking into this.

[Cream Soda]

If you can farm them efficiently (BLU works best, BLM is second best imop), you could try to kill Ghrahs inside. They're 75-77 and you would be able to chain 5 them on BLU with a little practice. Ghrah M chips can be used to pop Jailer of Fortitude, or sold for about 30k each on Lakshmi at least. Lumorian chips can be turned into Virtue stones.

If you're going for fort pops or farming for gil, sure, but if you're purely going for stones, I prefer xzomit family and will get more stones overall. 100% on mama and can kill the 2 babies and then her before the babies repop, so looking at a stack of stones every 3-5 mins depending on your job and how fast you can kill

[Mercilessturtle]

I currently have a Mirke augemented for PUP with ACC+10 Pet ACC/RACC +15. Just got Pantin Tobe to drop yesterday - should I keep the Mirke as is or re-augment for PetMAB/MACC (with some other throwaway stat) and use Tobe for melee?

If you use spiritreaver at all, do a pet mab/macc mirke.