Inception (Ending discussion now open, Enter at own risk of spoilers.)(MC: 74, RT: 86%)

[Neosutra]

First movie I ever walked out of. I dunno if it was just because I was too tired at the time I saw it (got in for free after dinner earlier that night with the girlfriend) but after the first couple scenes I felt like they were trying too hard to cram Mission Impossible and The Matrix into one film.

I dont know whether to put you in the "too lazy to sit through one of the best movies of the last few years and enjoy the depth of good storytelling" category or the "too stupid to understand and be challenged by the layers of questions put forth by the impressive vision and world created".

Either way, Thanx for your opinion.

[volcanicweather]

Thought it was a great movie and I'd say the discussion I've read so far has been fantastic...

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I think the "inception into cobb's mind" theory is probably the most valid one out there. Not going to go into a ton of detail because others have already mentioned most of the specifics.

One thing that kind of irked me though...

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It seemed like Fischer's "defenses" were just straight-up awful shots with their guns for being "trained" combatants against dream intruders. Especially in the snow scene with all those guys in the initial scenes and you have the forger just running around doing whatever the hell he wanted with some untrained rich guy and a dude who's just been shot. Felt like he was Jack Bauer on steroids honestly.

Also I thought it was a little ridiculous honestly that the "defenses" didn't just shoot the tires out on the white van during their chase scene and instead some random chemist turns into this hardcore rally driver and just beats armed men up (who are trained for combat mind you) while still driving peacefully enough to avoid a "kick" to wake everyone up. That seemed like a total common-sense moment that was overlooked.

These moments didn't really ruin the movie for me, but just seemed pretty mindless in a movie which people are obsession about how it made them "think" so much. They could have got the point across with half the baddies in snowland and not giving the guys chasing the white van guns and it would have been more realistic imo

[Denchi]

So, these are some great points being brought up, but I guess my question is.....

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If Cobb is actually in limbo the entire time, what the point of the movie? Obviously there is the explanation of his wife trying to bring him out, or his godfather using his knowledge along with Juno to bring him out. But I suppose, for me, that explanation discredits or makes most of the what we see in the movie way less interesting. The people in it, their motives, the plot of the Japanese guy's company, while all good and well, is pretty much lost (or, as I said, much less important) if the whole thing was a ploy to use Inception on Cobb by some other party.

My question then, is, these writers must have an ulterior motive, as "waking Cobb up" isn't that thrilling. There must be some other aspects of the plot line we see that make it more interesting than it seems to be.....?

Edit: If it's just supposed to be a glimpse into the complexity of epistemology then maybe that's neat?

[Tagus]

I dont know whether to put you in the "too lazy to sit through one of the best movies of the last few years and enjoy the depth of good storytelling" category or the "too stupid to understand and be challenged by the layers of questions put forth by the impressive vision and world created".

Either way, Thanx for your opinion.

lo f'ing l

Anyway... you know, between this and shutter island, I think Leo is my current favorite actor. I always heard he was good because people told me how good he was, but now I actually believe it myself. A big part of being a good actor is picking the right scripts, and he's on the ball.

[Tagus]

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I'm pretty convinced now that the entire thing was an inception against Cobb. The writers on this movie had put too much thought into this movie to have a character like Ariadne not act like she does for a reason, and that reason being to guide Cobb through his own inception just like he was guiding Fischer. The entire movie shows a change in Cobb which seemingly comes from within. Hell just look at Ariadne's name! It's a huge hint in itself.

Also, if Cobb really is being incepted (word choice???) wouldn't the inception itself need to be incredibly complex so he, an extractor, wouldn't know it's happening? Something as complex as say, a fake inception? Notice how Ariadne basically parallels Cobb the entire time while Cobb in turn is paralleling Fischer.

Also apparently Leo and Nolan spent an entire year pre-filming discussing and plotting how Leo would act emotionally during each and every scene of the film. This coupled with the faint ticks of the clock you can hear in the background during scenes when he's supposed to be awake....

I'm going to go watch this again tonight to make sure. I want to re-watch how other characters are reacted to during the course of the movie by civilians who would have to be projections for this theory to work. Notice though how the big companies going after Leo in the beginning act like the ones in Fischers mind? And how he seems to think they will just stop after he returns home?!?!

Also... wow at this. What an insightful interpretation.

[Gadritan]

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No, that was the young Fischer as a child with his father. He was holding the same pinwheel that he found in the safe at the very end. The significance of the picture was pretty much what they used on the final level (not limbo) for inception. The idea that his father really did love him, and he was disappointed that he tried to become who his father was and not his own person.

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I know it was supposed to be Fischer in the dream.

Cobb reacted very strangely when he saw the picture. That's why I'm wondering if anyone can remember if it was actually James, who's face you don't see till the very end.

If they were using inception on Cobb, that would be a subtle way of reminding him what's waiting for him in the real world since he couldn't see his kid's faces in his dreams, and his children would be the strongest emotional attachment he still had left to the real world. Perhaps that's what really became "home," for him. He wasn't exiled from the US, but rather had exiled himself from the real world, and his desire to see his children was the last thread of hope he still had for wanting to get back, while his guilt over Mal's death was really the last thread keeping him in limbo.

I remember Cobb having a stunned look when he first saw that picture. As mentioned previously, Leo and Nolan got together a year prior to production to map out his emotions during the scenes.

[kinyo]

Haven't seen the movie yet, its rough looking through the thread with so many spoilers, but quick question: Is Inception anything like the movie Paprika, a Japanese animated film about a research psychologist who uses a device that permits therapists to help patients by entering their dreams, but eventually involves a crime/investigation plot. I enjoyed understanding and interpreting the movie and was hoping Inception was like it.

[Daydreamer]

So, these are some great points being brought up, but I guess my question is.....

Spoiler: show

If Cobb is actually in limbo the entire time, what the point of the movie? Obviously there is the explanation of his wife trying to bring him out, or his godfather using his knowledge along with Juno to bring him out. But I suppose, for me, that explanation discredits or makes most of the what we see in the movie way less interesting. The people in it, their motives, the plot of the Japanese guy's company, while all good and well, is pretty much lost (or, as I said, much less important) if the whole thing was a ploy to use Inception on Cobb by some other party.

My question then, is, these writers must have an ulterior motive, as "waking Cobb up" isn't that thrilling. There must be some other aspects of the plot line we see that make it more interesting than it seems to be.....?

Edit: If it's just supposed to be a glimpse into the complexity of epistemology then maybe that's neat?

Spoiler: show

I'm actually taking the movie as 2 movies in one. The first being the one that most people who see the movie comprehend. Aka the Fischer plotline. The second being the actual deeper meaning behind everything. It's like two different movies for two different types of viewers.

It just doesn't make sense to me that the movie is not a dream given all of the subtle hints. I don't believe the people and motives are lost if it's a giant inception on Cobb, because without those things, the inception would never have worked on him.

I don't believe we're supposed to know what Cobb is actually 'in.' Hell, he could be in a coma or a psych ward for all we know. Heck, maybe this is even Shutter's Island part 2 in disguise (I joke on that, but seriously...). I just think that the movie is not about Fischer and that storyline, but about the deeper meaning of Cobb's redemption. It really does seem to shallow. When I first heard the "I want you to take down a big business" line I thought to myself 'wait, really? sounds like an idea they had solely to keep the story moving, not to make it interesting.'

I'll end this post here, before I keep rambling too much.

[Gadritan]

but quick question: Is Inception anything like the movie Paprika

Watch the trailers?

[Talus]

Re: passport stamp

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I just got back from re-watching Inception, and the comments about the passport stamp resembling the drawing Dom Cobb shows Ariadne doesn't hold up. His drawing shows two half-circle arrows pointing at each other's end with a line arrow bisecting the half-circle arrows. The passport stamp looks more like a horseshoe, where it is not a complete circle and the line in the center (which is text) is off-center towards the open end of the horseshoe/incomplete circle. Sorry to nitpick, but something I noticed.

[Daydreamer]

Haven't seen the movie yet, its rough looking through the thread with so many spoilers, but quick question: Is Inception anything like the movie Paprika, a Japanese animated film about a research psychologist who uses a device that permits therapists to help patients by entering their dreams, but eventually involves a crime/investigation plot. I enjoyed understanding and interpreting the movie and was hoping Inception was like it.

It's kinda like that, but deeper. There's a lot of interpreting to do.

One thing I can tell you that you should know the first time going in is LISTEN don't just look. hint hint.

[Tagus]

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It really does seem to shallow. When I first heard the "I want you to take down a big business" line I thought to myself 'wait, really? sounds like an idea they had solely to keep the story moving, not to make it interesting.'

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Nolan is quoted as choosing the "heist" plotline because, "he found that "traditionally [they] are very deliberately superficial in emotional terms"... perhaps for the same reasons that a group would choose it for an inception on Cobb. I can't wait until people start finding subliminal messages in the movie and claim that it's a massive inception on the viewer... you know it's coming.

Also, didn't Tom Berringer look horrible? I had a hard time recognizing him at first.

[Gadritan]

Also, didn't Tom Berringer look horrible? I had a hard time recognizing him at first.

rofl. Yeah. Good to know it wasn't just me.

[Antithesis]

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http://media.techeblog.com/images/in...nexplained.jpg

[Pikarya]

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Reality: No one, we think...

gdi

[Valisk]

I have two questions:

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1. How do you tell when death will result in a "kick" or going into limbo? At the beginning of the movie, Mal mentioned that shooting Authur would only wake him up but shotting him in a non-vital spot would only make him feel pain (so she shot him in the leg.) Cobb shot Authur to stop his pain and wake him up. If limbo is only entered if you die under heavily sedated situations. How did Cobb and and his wife end up there? Are we suppose to assume that they were heavily sedated as well? I would think that dying on the train tracks would wake/kick them but apparently it sends them to limbo?

2. What exactly was the idea Cobb "planted" in his wife's head? Initially I thought the idea was that "death was the only escape/path to limbo" (see 1st question) but after reading everyone's thoughts on the movie, I'm not so sure that makes sense anymore. Arthur told Saito that planting an idea was impossible and Cobb corrected him citing that he had done it once before (with his wife). What exactly was the idea?

[Neosutra]

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The idea he planted in his wife's head was "This world isnt real"

[Enygma55]

Answer to limbo

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No one knows how Cobbs or his wife first entered the dream world. This is what the argument is about.

IF you accept that this entire movie is in some sort of dream/limbo state, Then Cobbs is still asleep under heavy sedation in Reality. Reasoning behind it is subject to interpretation.

IF you accept that the entire movie is already in Reality then Cobbs gets his Happy ending.

Dying in the dream world will force you back into your real mind, BUT if your real mind is under heavy sedation you're in zombie mode and your consciousness goes into limbo.

[Eticket]

I have two questions:

Spoiler: show

1. How do you tell when death will result in a "kick" or going into limbo? At the beginning of the movie, Mal mentioned that shooting Authur would only wake him up but shotting him in a non-vital spot would only make him feel pain (so she shot him in the leg.) Cobb shot Authur to stop his pain and wake him up. If limbo is only entered if you die under heavily sedated situations. How did Cobb and and his wife end up there? Are we suppose to assume that they were heavily sedated as well? I would think that dying on the train tracks would wake/kick them but apparently it sends them to limbo?

2. What exactly was the idea Cobb "planted" in his wife's head? Initially I thought the idea was that "death was the only escape/path to limbo" (see 1st question) but after reading everyone's thoughts on the movie, I'm not so sure that makes sense anymore. Arthur told Saito that planting an idea was impossible and Cobb corrected him citing that he had done it once before (with his wife). What exactly was the idea?

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Dying on the train tracks kicked them out of it. There was a flash near the end that showed them as an old couple on the tracks. That's how they escaped/woke up.

As far as how they got there, I think they just found a way. Once they got there they just chose to stay there and not wake up again. He planted the idea of 'your world is not real' when she locked her totem away and wouldn't let go of the limbo reality. Then he convinced her to lay on the tracks with them and they woke.

[Katlan]

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The idea he planted in his wife's head was "This world isnt real"

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but it carried over into the real world, so she thought the real world wasn't real and still a dream.

I took it as Limbo is when you lose yourself in the dream and forget its reality. It's the mental prison of sorts.. where time flows sooo incredibly slow in real life (cause your so many levels deep) that you can be stuck in limbo for eternity's upon eternity's and never die since your real body will only experience a few days or w/e amount of time. They were so heavily sedated at the end because they had to go 3 levels deep in order to plant the idea in Fischer's mind, and it was the only way to keep them stabilized.. so if they died to early (basically) they wouldn't be able to wake up cause of the sedation and would go into limbo (in a reality in that they thought they woke up, so it was real).

But wait.. if they couldn't die... each kick took them out of each lv before they died? Like the elevator free fall took them out of level 3, and then the van hitting the water took them out of level 2 before they hit the ceiling?..., but what took them out of level 1? Was it just that their time ran out and they woke up?

fuck, i think i just confused myself