Post Your Augmented Items VI: Show off your JPs

[Mercilessturtle]

Testing it now actually, not seeing any difference between 37% and 50%+. Internet latency is not an argument for cure cast time, that doesn't make any sense at all. The server decides your cast time, what gear you wear will not get the information to the server any quicker. Note that I am not arguing that regen merits are super awesome, I am answering the question "why the hate on cure cast merits". The answer being "because of the assumption that they do absolutely nothing".

[Cairthenn]

Latency affecting gear change, often causes spells to start casting before precast gear is swapped in. Or am I being whooshed.

[Mercilessturtle]

My original point was you can't test cast time reduction based on when HP is restored because latency makes your results meaningless. Lag doesn't make you cast without precast gear, it makes you cast in midcast gear. So cure cast merits help if you lag and are /sch for light arts. That said, the testing never covered curagas which don't have the same cast time, so it is quite possible that cure cast merits help all the time for those. And I am getting an improvement in cast time at 50% vs 37% on cure 6, so the assumption that cure cast merits do nothing is wrong.

Edit: of course it is perfectly obvious that cure 6 doesn't follow the same tiers now that I looked it up in the dats. The wiki incorrectly lists cure 6 as having the same 2.5s cast time as cure 3-5, it is actually 2s.

[solanis]

My original point was you can't test cast time reduction based on when HP is restored because latency makes your results meaningless. Lag doesn't make you cast without precast gear, it makes you cast in midcast gear. So cure cast merits help if you lag and are /sch for light arts. That said, the testing never covered curagas which don't have the same cast time, so it is quite possible that cure cast merits help all the time for those. And I am getting an improvement in cast time at 50% vs 37% on cure 6, so the assumption that cure cast merits do nothing is wrong.

I don't really get why there is any discussion on this. like I said earlier, what would be the point of regen merits? who casts regen anymore? on the off-chance that your precast doesn't swap properly, you always have cast time merits to make sure you're getting your cures off quickly.

[Mercilessturtle]

Like I said, a whm should be casting regen. "I am an idiot and don't bother with regen" is not the argument against regen merits. The argument against regen merits is "cure cast merits are more valuable than regen merits". 2 or 4 cure cast merits will help if your gear swaps get screwed, either putting you past the first tier (2 merits) or past the second tier (4 merits) depending on if you are /sch or not. Curagas and cure 6 don't follow the same tiers as cure 3-5 though, so 5 merits may very well help for those when your gear swaps fuck up.

[solanis]

Like I said, a whm should be casting regen. "I am an idiot and don't bother with regen" is not the argument against regen merits. The argument against regen merits is "cure cast merits are more valuable than regen merits". 2 or 4 cure cast merits will help if your gear swaps get screwed, either putting you past the first tier (2 merits) or past the second tier (4 merits) depending on if you are /sch or not. Curagas and cure 6 don't follow the same tiers as cure 3-5 though, so 5 merits may very well help for those when your gear swaps fuck up.

when would you cast regen? regen was attractive outside abyssea because MP wasn't infinite. I really can't think of a good reason to use it inside abyssea.

[Mercilessturtle]

I already mentioned why you should have regen on:

not casting regen is stupid, there is no harm in casting it, and it will very rarely save someone when a regen tick leaves them just enough HP to survive the next hit.

Seriously, why would you not cast regen? Rarely preventing a death with no downside seems like a pretty obvious choice.

[solanis]

I already mentioned why you should have regen on:



Seriously, why would you not cast regen? Rarely preventing a death with no downside seems like a pretty obvious choice.

your arguement to merit something is that you'll cast it during downtime or risk being caught in spell lock when your tank needs an immediate cure? seems like a pretty weak case to optimize a spell.

[Xera]

The wiki incorrectly lists cure 6 as having the same 2.5s cast time as cure 3-5, it is actually 2s.

This explains so much. . .

Also, this should work on Cures right?

Spoiler: show

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...a%2B2-2596.png

[Jeryhn]

Seriously, why would you not cast regen? Rarely preventing a death with no downside seems like a pretty obvious choice.

But there is a downside. Because you could be too busy casting Regen, a long cast-time spell compared to any Cure spell, in the middle of one of those big attacks that would leave someone in double digit HP, leaving your tank to subsequently die to the next attack while you're finishing the spell. I'd much rather be idle with Cure4-Cure6 ready to fire. Not to mention there's no way to enhance Regen's cast time short of using Celerity or the rare pieces of Fast Cast gear that WHM has access to in comparison to Cure Cast gear or merits. Not that that's an argument against Cure Cast merits: If an attack is going to level a player down to single or double digit HP, the difference between survival of the attack and being one-shotted is really not gonna be because of Regen merits. You also have to bear in mind that SE introduces events and mobs with abilities with Encumberment effects (the inability to equip gear for a set period of time), and your Cure speed gear won't be helping you in those situations either. And I don't care what anyone says, no mage is gonna be out of range of an Iron Giant's Ballistic Kick 100% of the time - shit happens.

In fact, the only time I cast Regen anymore (in Abyssea, at least) is against mobs that I know use dispelling attacks or magic in an effort to get the Regen erased over something more valuable, like Shell or Haste.

[Jeryhn]

This explains so much. . .

Also, this should work on Cures right?

Spoiler: show

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...a%2B2-2596.png

Yeah... but, uhm, good luck switching into the +2 Cure Potency staff afterwards via macros? Light Affinity does not increase Cure Potency.

[Xera]

Yeah... but, uhm, good luck switching into the +2 Cure Potency staff afterwards via macros? Light Affinity does not increase Cure Potency.

22% Cure potency is redundant at this point, I can leave it +1 and still over kill Cure Potency with Staff/AF3+2 Head/ Facio Body/Augurs/Roundel. This is assuming AF3+2 isn't amazing to the point I have to drop Facio Bliaut.

[Mercilessturtle]

your arguement to merit something is that you'll cast it during downtime or risk being caught in spell lock when your tank needs an immediate cure? seems like a pretty weak case to optimize a spell.

I have not ever suggested that anyone should merit regen. I simply mentioned that not casting regen is stupid, and not a valid reason for or against any merit choices.

But there is a downside. Because you could be too busy casting Regen, a long cast-time spell compared to any Cure spell, in the middle of one of those big attacks that would leave someone in double digit HP, leaving your tank to subsequently die to the next attack while you're finishing the spell.

You haven't figured out when to safely cast spells yet? How do you keep up hastes? If whms can safely do banishgas for grellow, and safely do hastes, they can also safely do regen. The question was not "what should I merit if I don't bother casting regen", the question was "why are people hating on cure cast merits". The answer is because of the assumption that cure cast merits do nothing.

[Jeryhn]

Wat.

Surya +2, Bliaut 14, Orison Head +2 and Augur hands are exactly +50% Cure Potency, how exactly is that "overkill"?

All you've done is prove how useless Roundel is for WHM.

[FailureMidgard]

Even still, yes you should be /sch most of the time. "We really need stun while duoing" is not the standard case, it is the exception. And not casting regen is stupid, there is no harm in casting it, and it will very rarely save someone when a regen tick leaves them just enough HP to survive the next hit.

Disagree entirely. "Need" stun during duo is rare. Stun outdoing any MP efficiency sch gives you is true on every NM that casts agas, which is some 50% of them. Stun is 25 mp. Cure II is 24, 22 in Light arts. Thats about how much damage you need to prevent with a stun for it to be "efficient". When you're stunning a 500pt aga on a shitty NM, or a 1k pt aga on a mediocre NM, or a 2k aga that still doesn't need to be stunned on Carabosse to win, you are still doing better than a /sch.

I'm sorry, but /sch is an outside Abyssea SJ atm. /blm is far and away better (and /drk for that matter, but /blm beats /drk really) inside.

Edit: the only time /stun loses to other SJs is if other people in the ally are stunning really, or on a few very specific NMs that are few and far between.

[Yugl]

This argument is ridiculous. Of course sub BLM is better than sub SCH for WHM, but it's not because of stun. It's because of fucking D2 you dorks.

[Mercilessturtle]

Seriously? You went from "MP doesn't matter so sub blm for stun" to "sub blm because it is more mp effecient than /sch" awfully quick. If the normal case for you is duoing and needing stun more than needing dispel, then feel free to /blm. I don't think that is the normal case for most people.

[Xera]

Wat.

Surya +2, Bliaut 14, Orison Head +2 and Augur hands are exactly +50% Cure Potency, how exactly is that "overkill"?

All you've done is prove how useless Roundel is for WHM.

My point was Cure Potency is a joke to obtain no matter where it's from.

Given having both staves I'd take the Casting speed for banish and the like. You can call it stupid or whatever, but at most you're only losing 3~4 MND on cures no? Woop dee do 2 or 3 more on Cure V.

[Cairthenn]

My point is now that non-Cure Potency Surya's is fucking stupid. Using up more slots to attain the same stat as what you can gain from one slot where it is, in fact, the best option for that slot is just...well...yeah...

Given having both staves I'd take the Casting speed for banish and the like. You can call it stupid or whatever, but at most you're only losing 3~4 MND on cures no? Woop dee do 2 or 3 more on Cure V.

What the hell does this even mean?

[Xera]

My point is now that non-Cure Potency Surya's is fucking stupid. Using up more slots to attain the same stat as what you can gain from one slot where it is, in fact, the best option for that slot is just...well...yeah...

I have to disagree there, in a case of 3~4 on my cures Vs faster casting spells that CCT doesn't affect, I'll take the speed any day. Disagree all you want, but without perfect augments you're gaining nothing as you need to use that slot as is.